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Thread: If the Raptors are buyers

  1. #21
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    If we were seriously going win now mode? So leaving behind the fact that it's an awful idea, I'd say you'd need to figure out a formula to beat Miami and Indiana. No sense in a win-now mode that just gets you by Atlanta and Chicago. Teams that have had the best success against Miami have had really big, powerful front-courts to take advantage of Miami's one weakness. JV's potential doesn't count in win-now, and Johnson and Hansborough aren't elite. So you do whatever you can to get a powerful post presence at both ends of the court. Several of those guys on eastern-conference teams that are potentially out of the playoffs. Perimeter play is a big part of both those teams, so an upgrade to perimeter defense would be a big plus, but those guys are hard to find right now. I think you move out either Gay or DeRozan (probably DD), promote one of Ross or Fields to starter, hope that gives you an upgrade in perimeter defense, and then bring in an upgraded post player. You can also move one of the other bigs, plus any draft picks to make it work (yeah, I'd never actually trade our first-rounders, but playing along with the win now theory...).

    Something around DeRozan for Al Jefferson (if Charlotte changes their mind about winning now, which wouldn't surprise me, and Kidd-Gilchrist and DeRozan could compliment one another so I could see them doing it). Moving out DeRozan would free up shot attempts for Jefferson and other players, and Jefferson has the flexibility to play PF alongside JV or C alongside Johnson, who can give you a solid 15-9 and defend well. And then an upgrade to backup PG, too. If you could trade either Fields or Ross for an established 3-and-D guy (probably needing to throw in a draft pick to make it happen), you do it, but I just can't see any of guys on the market who fill the role better than the guys we already have. In the short term, you feed JV and Ross minutes in hopes that they can grow as much as possible between now and the playoffs.

    So a lineup something like:
    Jefferson - JV
    Amir - Hansborough
    Gay - Novak
    Fields - Ross
    Lowry - Ridnour

    Sooo, yeah still not a championship team, but I think that could be a realistic 3rd in the east roster, with an outside chance of knocking off either of the top two teams. I actually like that roster's chances against Miami more than against Indiana.

    edit: oh yeah, and get a coach who won't try to beat Miami by going smallball.
    Last edited by octothorp; Sun Nov 24th, 2013 at 07:43 PM.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    What are you buying for? The OP's list isn't inspiring at all. If you're buying simply to give yourself a better shot at the playoffs then I'm not sure it's worth it. The East is so bad.

    If they're buying to put together a contender, I'm fine with that but I'm just not sure how you get there. They need one All-NBA guy (likely two). I could get my head around figuring some trade where you dump first rounders in perpetuity one guy but how do they get the second one? Val and Ross and more picks? You won't have much left....

    Put it this way, how do you get Kevin Love and Rajon Rondo to Toronto while keeping Gay and Derozan and Val? Not sure that's even possible. You'd need to do something like that and leave yourself some room to sign vets as backups. Seems unlikely...
    and this is one of the problems with the idea of being a buyer - who is 'for sale' that is good enough for what this team needs, and how the heck do you buy them, and do all that without sacrificing the future and/or creating a hole somewhere else on the roster?

    This was a Colangelo problem. He was constantly a buyer. He sacrificed the long term for the near term because he didn't have assets valuable enough current assets to buy what the team needed, and that kept leaving him less future assets. The few quality asset he did or may have had (Bosh, Bargnani while on a rookie scale deal) he was unwilling to part with.

    The only time this worked to any degree, was in 2006/07, but he used up almost everything in one fell swoop and had to buy pretty good but not great players - and it all unravelled the next year.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    The majority of us here are team tank but let's take a mental break appreciate we are in 4th and if the playoffs started tomorrow we could beat anyone in the east (with the exception of Miami and Indiana).

    Having said that we are still not contenders, we are quite a long way off. Our team right now isn't built for consistent domination.

    but if the raptors were buyers (then realistically it would be a short sighted win now move) what do you think we could/should target?

    Our biggest weakness is backup pg - we have 3 of them and combined they are averaging 2.2 assists per game. We would need a vet who would make smart decisions.
    Targets: Bucks - Ridnour, Rockets - Beverly or Brooks, Lakers - Blake or Farmar, Blazers - Watson, Wolves - Barea

    What else could the Raptors do in a buyers market? Do you think it would still include a large shake up [ala the Josh Smith thread]?
    Beverley is basically the starter for Houston, so I'm not sure why he's on your list with a bunch of buy-low players. I think Brooks would be a good target because a) he is capable of handling the load, b) he's currently the 3rd PG, so he is theoretically cheaper than the avg back-up.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I'm looking at Monroe in Detroit. And what the hell is PHX doing with Bledsoe? Are they trying to tank or not? PHX is interesting, if they continue to 'overachieve' they may just decide to move picks for established talent and get better now? If not, they may be willing to move Bledsoe, as he is going to RFAgency in the offseason, and will no doubt get a nice raise. Is PHX willing to match any offer I wonder? Would we, if we were somehow involved in a trade that nets us Bledsoe? I have been thinking about multiple team deals in which we can get Bledsoe, but they mainly involved an Asik deal to OKC, with the Raps taking back Perkins and Lowry going to PHX. I don't think OKC is in the Asik market, so I don't see it as a possibility and of course, I have no idea what PHX intends, but dangle a 1st rounder in front of them and maybe they let Bledsoe go. Of course, that begs the question, do you move a 1st rounder for a guy going into RFA this offseason?

    JV/Amir
    Monroe/Tyler
    Fields/Acy
    DD/TRoss
    Bledsoe/Buycks/Augustin

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I'm looking at Monroe in Detroit. And what the hell is PHX doing with Bledsoe? Are they trying to tank or not? PHX is interesting, if they continue to 'overachieve' they may just decide to move picks for established talent and get better now? If not, they may be willing to move Bledsoe, as he is going to RFAgency in the offseason, and will no doubt get a nice raise. Is PHX willing to match any offer I wonder? Would we, if we were somehow involved in a trade that nets us Bledsoe? I have been thinking about multiple team deals in which we can get Bledsoe, but they mainly involved an Asik deal to OKC, with the Raps taking back Perkins and Lowry going to PHX. I don't think OKC is in the Asik market, so I don't see it as a possibility and of course, I have no idea what PHX intends, but dangle a 1st rounder in front of them and maybe they let Bledsoe go. Of course, that begs the question, do you move a 1st rounder for a guy going into RFA this offseason?

    JV/Amir
    Monroe/Tyler
    Fields/Acy
    DD/TRoss
    Bledsoe/Buycks/Augustin
    From what I've read, Phoenix is actually turning their tanks around and aiming for the playoffs. I don't see them getting rid of Bledsoe even for a first round pick. And I do think he's going to be going for a near max salary which is something I would personally want to avoid.

  6. #26
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    I'd go with DeRozan+Novak for Boozer. For Chicago, it saves them $2M in salary this season which, with their luxury taxes, actually saves them $4M (or more? Not sure how far above the tax they will be). Taj Gibson easily slides into the starting lineup, and DeRozan would flourish as either a 6th man behind Butler or in the starting lineup alongside Deng.

    For Toronto, it gives you a solid big man rotation of boozer/hansbrough + JV/amir. The shots DeRozan would be taking from long 2 is replaced with post shots and elbow jumpers buy Boozer. And the SG position would be split between Ross/Fields.

    The negative is we sacrifice 3 point shooting, but Carlos/Rudy are both set to be off the books at the same time (or they both opt out after this season), freeing up significant cap space and allowing us to pull of Utah Jazz-esque trades to acquire draft picks while we pay the likes of Richard Jefferson to not play for us. Win-win?

  7. #27
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    From what I've read, Phoenix is actually turning their tanks around and aiming for the playoffs.
    Not really, no. Phoenix is driving through the middle ground right now, because they're not good enough to make playoffs. If they were in the East, then it would be a different story, but they're in the West and they're not better than the Spurs, Thunder, Warriors, Blazers, Clippers, Timberwolves, Mavericks or Rockets.

    But at the same time, Eric Bledsoe is turning out to be a better starter than anybody could have dreamed and the Suns don't want Bledsoe going anywhere because he's their new franchise lynchpin. So they're doing their best to compete and make Bledsoe feel like this season has a point, rather than abjectly tanking Philly-style, and they figure they've got either three or four first-round picks this year (theirs, Minnesota's, Indiana's and maybe Washington's if Washington manages to start sucking less), so if they get a lower-level lottery pick (say 7-11) and two later first-rounders, you know what? That's okay, because Bledsoe looks like an All-Star waiting to happen, Archie Goodwin looks great, the Morris twins are exceeding all expectations anybody has ever had, Alex Len is still likelier than not to turn into a solid center, and Hornacek is showing his bonafides as a coach and there is definitely promise there.

    Phoenix isn't going to look like they do right now for the rest of the season - already teams are scouting Phoenix's offense and learning to deal with it. But they're letting their young players go balls-out and that's fine by them.

  8. #28
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    The majority of us here are team tank but let's take a mental break appreciate we are in 4th and if the playoffs started tomorrow we could beat anyone in the east (with the exception of Miami and Indiana).

    Having said that we are still not contenders, we are quite a long way off. Our team right now isn't built for consistent domination.

    but if the raptors were buyers (then realistically it would be a short sighted win now move) what do you think we could/should target?

    Our biggest weakness is backup pg - we have 3 of them and combined they are averaging 2.2 assists per game. We would need a vet who would make smart decisions.
    Targets: Bucks - Ridnour, Rockets - Beverly or Brooks, Lakers - Blake or Farmar, Blazers - Watson, Wolves - Barea

    What else could the Raptors do in a buyers market? Do you think it would still include a large shake up [ala the Josh Smith thread]?
    Interesting questions.

    If the Raptors want to be contenders at some point, then they have to add at least one legit All Star. I.e. not Josh Smith.

    So if that's the goal, then there's not much 'buying' that they could do, even if they don't want to tank. They could shore up the bench a little and hope that's enough. For example, see if Courtney Lee is available for expirings. Keep the picks, don't take bad contracts. I don't think there's a star that's available right now. Even if the Raptors offer their 2014 1st pick for Rondo for example, I think the Celtics probably don't take it.

    But if it's Colangelo attitude (sacrifice assets, forget about cap space, just make the playoffs and see what happens), then there could be many options. Just add more talent. Preferably players who don't take every shot and play some defense. Jeff Green, Afflalo. I think either could be had for picks.
    For example, Jeff Green, Courtney Lee for Fields, Ross, Novak, 2014 first.
    Afflalo for Fields, 2014 first.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I like the idea of going after Danny Granger...if he stays healthy the rest of the year...resign him at around 10m.

  10. #30
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I like the idea of going after Danny Granger...if he stays healthy the rest of the year...resign him at around 10m.
    I never thought of DG --- he could be had at a reasonable price tag, low risk high reward type trade. They would love to have Kyle Lowry as a back up and maybe Novak for the occasional floor spacing.

    Mind you this would be more of a tank move since Granger doesn't look like he will be 100% for a while, we would lose our only legitimate pg and we would have a older injury prone Rudy Gay (but much more efficient).... but if we were tanking and able to move Gay this move would be very interesting

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    seriously, danny granger at $10M per? But DD isn't even worth $9.5M per remember!

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I like the idea of going after Danny Granger...if he stays healthy the rest of the year...resign him at around 10m.
    10 mil is way too much for Granger and his knees.

    Dead serious when I say 2 to 3 mil tops. Anything else is just too risky because of how easily his career could end.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Granger is toast, sadly. You never want to see injuries derail a career.

    The reason he fell on draft night was his knees if I recall correctly.

    It took a while but they eventually crumbled.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #34
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Randle is a potential all star but he has yet to play against an elite defender this season like Wiggins who owned Randle (sort of) last season.

    Not the biggest fan of Randle's game myself. He's beasting young cats that haven't matured physically as much as himself. He only goes left and I have a strong feeling he won't be big enough to bully players in the NBA but doesn't have enough of a finesse game to keep opponents honest.

    I actually like him as a prospect less than Wiggins, Smart, Jabari, Exum, or Selden. I would take Ehmbid over him as well as I think his ceiling his much higher than Julius.

  15. #35
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    I would buy solid PF, and vet PG.

    Greg Monroe + 2014 2nd rounder + an expiring for Fields, Novak and 2014 1st round pick (top 15 protected) sounds good to me

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