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The craziest game of tradeMachine I've ever played

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  • The craziest game of tradeMachine I've ever played

    In the spirit of Chisholm's frontpage article, I thought I'd play around with trade machine to see if I could find any 3-way deal that could at once bring in Deng and Dragic. Not a pro-tank trade, but one I'd be fairly happy with.

    Toronto gets:
    Luol Deng, Goran Dragic, Erik Murphy (obvious filler)....and the lower between Chicago's 1st and the extra one PHX sends them (?)

    Phoenix gets:
    Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer (is PHX tanking? Some rumbles that they might decide to compete)

    Chicago gets:
    Kyle Lowry, Emeka Okafor, a Morris twin (I put Markieff), Gerald Green, PJ Tucker/Quincy Acy (or both)....and one of PHX's extra 1st rounders (?)

    Chicago has 2 1st rounders and PHX has 4 this year. I think Toronto could nab one somewhere.

    This is a crazy trade. Chicago would have to cut a player afterward if they wanted both Tucker and Acy, but since Mike James is on their roster, that seems about right. Or they could just take one.

    Toronto gets a more traditional pick'n'roll PG. He's having an off year from behind the line, but he's normally a solid shooter, so not sure what trend to expect. Deng is an upgrade over Gay in most ways, and I'd say a much better fit for this roster. I'd also say it's better for the Raptors cap situation, even though Dragic has 2 more years, because they're affordable.

    Chicago gets a starting PG, extra cap relief this year, a young PF to play behind Gibson, and wing filler (which admittedly is sketchy and the hardest part to work out). It's a trade that signals the start of some changes, but with Rose out another year, it might be best to start now than keep rolling with the roster that was put around him. If they take Tucker instead of Acy, then only Green and Morris add money, and both expire next year, and adding less than 6 million combined.

    PHX gets veteran pieces that also line up to give them a massive expiring haul next season if Gay picks up his option. PHX has clearly started much better than anyone expected, and while they might still want to tank, they still have 4 first rounders lined up this year, or 3 if they trade one away in this deal so it's not like they still can't use this draft to improve a lot (I'm thinking they send one to Chicago, and we get the lower of that one and Chicago's on draft night). I also am pretty sure PHX was a team rumored to have interest in Gay last year, so hopefully that hasn't changed.

    Ok, now tell me why this is crazy? Because it is, right?

    *Edit: Obviously bored as shit here with such a gap between Raps games.

    **Edit: took me so long to write that I forgot to post the tradeMachine link.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ns9ynze
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:44 PM.

  • #2
    I don't think this is too crazy, a little perhaps, but it does make sense I think for all parties if PHX is trying to win this year and if the Bulls are satisfied to let the season slip away. Without Rose, the Bulls really have no other choice anyway as they have little to no chance of beating either Indy or the Heat. So the flexibility of the expirings and the acquisition of a prospect or two may be appealing. The trade also doesn't hamper PHX, as both Boozer and Gay will be off the books by the time the big FA's are on the market, and it should make their team better this year and next while still maintaining a plethora of picks to draft or trade.

    I guess the question really is, will there be better offers for these clubs if PHX are buyers and/or the Bulls are sellers?

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think it's crazy, it's one of those situations where you just don't know. There are two big wild cards, Suns and Bulls owners. The Bulls save a fair bit of money with the deal by not having to amnesty Boozer. They'll have to find a way to cut costs in 2015 if they want to avoid repeater tax and this does it, although this is a very cheap way to do it. And there have been enough signs that show that the Suns owner just aims for a solid, profitable playoff team as opposed to going the extra mile.

      Still, the Suns have silently been one of the best managed teams over the last few years. They messed up the Kendall Marshall pick, but overall they had clear direction and nailed a lot of moves. It would be sad to see them stumble in this way. In my eyes, this would have to be an ownership move and it would make their ownership the worst in the league, hands down. But looking back, I can't say that I would put this past Robert Sarver.

      The Bulls I think are more unlikely, although like I said, I can't call it "crazy". Still, their owner is more open to the public and right now he's talking about them competing without Rose. This move would go against that. They fill a need at point guard but overall I think they get worse. It's also not a tanking move. A team with Lowry/Butler/Gibson/Noah should still be able to get one of the last playoff seeds. So it's just a financial move, it drops Boozer instead of amnestying him and gives them a small asset in one of the Morris twins. Whom they'd probably trade again next year since they have Gibson and they likely have Mirotic incoming, so not much need for Morris long term.

      So overall, who knows, but this would be a sad day for the Bulls and Suns fans.

      Another thing is that even if I was making similar moves for the Bulls and the Suns, I think I'd take Deng for the Suns over Gay and Dragic for the Bulls over Lowry. In other words, I wouldn't see any need to include the Raptors into this and just deal directly.

      Imo, the Bulls should deal for Lowry or Dragic, but it should be something along the lines of Kirk Hinrich+Mike Dunleavy+1st for one of them. Or something involving Taj Gibson.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think it's crazy only because I don't think Phoenix GM is high as a kite

        Comment


        • #5
          BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
          I don't think it's crazy, it's one of those situations where you just don't know. There are two big wild cards, Suns and Bulls owners. The Bulls save a fair bit of money with the deal by not having to amnesty Boozer. They'll have to find a way to cut costs in 2015 if they want to avoid repeater tax and this does it, although this is a very cheap way to do it. And there have been enough signs that show that the Suns owner just aims for a solid, profitable playoff team as opposed to going the extra mile.

          Still, the Suns have silently been one of the best managed teams over the last few years. They messed up the Kendall Marshall pick, but overall they had clear direction and nailed a lot of moves. It would be sad to see them stumble in this way. In my eyes, this would have to be an ownership move and it would make their ownership the worst in the league, hands down. But looking back, I can't say that I would put this past Robert Sarver.

          The Bulls I think are more unlikely, although like I said, I can't call it "crazy". Still, their owner is more open to the public and right now he's talking about them competing without Rose. This move would go against that. They fill a need at point guard but overall I think they get worse. It's also not a tanking move. A team with Lowry/Butler/Gibson/Noah should still be able to get one of the last playoff seeds. So it's just a financial move, it drops Boozer instead of amnestying him and gives them a small asset in one of the Morris twins. Whom they'd probably trade again next year since they have Gibson and they likely have Mirotic incoming, so not much need for Morris long term.

          So overall, who knows, but this would be a sad day for the Bulls and Suns fans.

          Another thing is that even if I was making similar moves for the Bulls and the Suns, I think I'd take Deng for the Suns over Gay and Dragic for the Bulls over Lowry. In other words, I wouldn't see any need to include the Raptors into this and just deal directly.

          Imo, the Bulls should deal for Lowry or Dragic, but it should be something along the lines of Kirk Hinrich+Mike Dunleavy+1st for one of them. Or something involving Taj Gibson.
          For the Suns, they need a scorer more than a glue guy. They basically don't have a go-to guy who can get them a tough basket. Deng is not that guy. Gay can be that guy, and Boozer gives them a low-post threat which they also lack.

          For the Bulls, they will not add long-term money if trading away Boozer, and they will not add a starting calibre PG who is under contract beyond this season, so that they can be ready for Rose's return without worry about what to do with Dragic. To me, Lowry is a better fit for what Chicago tries to do on the court, and how they're managed off it.

          If the Raptors aren't included, the deal gets slightly worse for both teams, I think.

          Big question in the end is just whether Chicago will actually look to move Deng. He's been such a critical piece for them for so long. Could be a bad move. But he could walk for nothing, and Chicago is notoriously cheap enough to believe that's a real possibility.

          Comment


          • #6
            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            For the Suns, they need a scorer more than a glue guy. They basically don't have a go-to guy who can get them a tough basket. Deng is not that guy. Gay can be that guy, and Boozer gives them a low-post threat which they also lack.

            For the Bulls, they will not add long-term money if trading away Boozer, and they will not add a starting calibre PG who is under contract beyond this season, so that they can be ready for Rose's return without worry about what to do with Dragic. To me, Lowry is a better fit for what Chicago tries to do on the court, and how they're managed off it.

            If the Raptors aren't included, the deal gets slightly worse for both teams, I think.

            Big question in the end is just whether Chicago will actually look to move Deng. He's been such a critical piece for them for so long. Could be a bad move. But he could walk for nothing, and Chicago is notoriously cheap enough to believe that's a real possibility.
            1. No draft choice for Bulls.
            2. Bulls will NOT amnesty Boozer (to cheap), do not want repeater tax -so Deng has to be traded. Is this the best deal? I don't know.
            3. With this trade Bulls have a good chance at 2nd round of playoffs. Without Kyle or a solid upgrade at PG -I don't think so.
            4. WRT Kyle vs Dragic -because of lengths of contracts -Kyle is a better fit.

            Comment


            • #7
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              For the Suns, they need a scorer more than a glue guy. They basically don't have a go-to guy who can get them a tough basket. Deng is not that guy. Gay can be that guy, and Boozer gives them a low-post threat which they also lack.

              For the Bulls, they will not add long-term money if trading away Boozer, and they will not add a starting calibre PG who is under contract beyond this season, so that they can be ready for Rose's return without worry about what to do with Dragic. To me, Lowry is a better fit for what Chicago tries to do on the court, and how they're managed off it.

              If the Raptors aren't included, the deal gets slightly worse for both teams, I think.

              Big question in the end is just whether Chicago will actually look to move Deng. He's been such a critical piece for them for so long. Could be a bad move. But he could walk for nothing, and Chicago is notoriously cheap enough to believe that's a real possibility.
              If the Suns do decide to make shortsighted deals and go for the playoffs, I think they simply need better players. Deng is a better player. I think the "can get a tough basket" ability is a gimmick anyway, if the player keeps missing those shots and abuses that ability at the rate that Gay does. IMO, with a Deng/Boozer combo they'd be better on both ends of the floor, compared to Gay/Boozer.

              As for the Bulls, keep in mind that your deal leaves the Bulls with ~25ish mil under tax, depending on the new tax line. Some of that would go to Mirotic and new rookies. But it still leaves 15+ mil. In real life, they'll probably use that money to re-sign Deng (after amnestying Boozer). But in a trade like this, I suspect they'd look at Dragic. I think the "Bulls owner is cheap" argument is only feasible to a certain degree. Dragic is a very good player on a great contract, and they could use a 6th man even when Rose gets back. Even if they decided to move him next year, it should be easy to do.

              I think in general Deng looks like a better asset than Gay and Dragic looks like a better asset than Lowry, which is why this deal makes sense for the Raptors in the first place. But those other teams would likely see it that way too.

              Comment

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