Is Demar Derozan the real future of this franchise?

[JawsGT]

I was the poster who mentioned the stats you referenced; you initially seem opposed to my overall assessment of DeRozan (even mentioned rolling your eyes), but then you go on to bring up the exact same points I did. I think you missed the context of my assessment and perhaps let your emotions get the best of you.

My assessment and mentioning those lofty shooting % stats to target (a target, not an absolute must to reach those precise %), was in direct response to the OP, which claims that DeRozan is an elite player. My conclusion was that given the weaknesses that still persist in DeRozan's game (all of which you reiterated in your own assessment), his shooting/scoring would have to be at that level in order for him to be considered an elite player overall. If scoring is all a player is going to bring to his team, then he better be extremely efficient with his scoring, to be considered an elite player overall.

My other conclusion was that as a #2/#3 option who shot less but scored more efficiently, DeRozan would be worth his $9.5M contract and worth keeping around. A more efficient DeRozan that was part of the secondary core (ie: not the elite star being built around) would not have such lofty expectations put on him, because it would be agreed upon that he is not and never will be an elite player (which the OP said he already was).

All I was saying is that if DeRozan is going to be considered to be an elite player, he needs to have elite expectations placed on him. Not believing that he is an elite player means also not placing those elite expectations on him, which is exactly the same thing you said about DeRozan. Had you noted my context (replying to the OP claim that DeRozan is already an elite player), you would have realized that I was only saying exactly what you went on to say.

Any SG with shooting stats like that isn't just an elite player, they are a superstar. And it was you that said he needed to average that in order for YOU to be satisfied. Satisfied with what? His classification as an elite player? Does the guy need to be an elite player in order to have a place on this team going forward? Or does your expectations of his improvement have something to do with BC's bs and franchise player label that was so inappropriately out on the guy? The only thing Demar needs to do right now to be considered elite is become a lockdown defender. He does that, and continues to play offense like he has, and he is arguably the best SG in the league. Both Ellis and Harden are better scorers, but neither has very good defense, and those are the two guys that come to mind right now as being amongst the top SG's.

[Masai Ujiri]

Demar could have a future here if he continues to play well but he'll never be the future. Trading Demar isn't as necessary as trading Gay and Lowry but he might bring in the best return.

It's not necessary at all. Even if it takes us 3 years to rebuild the team, DeRozan is still locked up for those 3 years and would only be 27. And as I've said a few times he's paid like a 4th option on a contending team (go look at most contenders and their 4th highest or sometimes 5th highest player is in DD's salary range).

You trade him if you get a great offer that you can't refuse. You don't look to dump him to tank. He's not Rudy Gay who's 27 and getting paid $19M a year.

[Masai Ujiri]

Any SG with shooting stats like that isn't just an elite player, they are a superstar. And it was you that said he needed to average that in order for YOU to be satisfied. Satisfied with what? His classification as an elite player? Does the guy need to be an elite player in order to have a place on this team going forward? Or does your expectations of his improvement have something to do with BC's bs and franchise player label that was so inappropriately out on the guy? The only thing Demar needs to do right now to be considered elite is become a lockdown defender. He does that, and continues to play offense like he has, and he is arguably the best SG in the league. Both Ellis and Harden are better scorers, but neither has very good defense, and those are the two guys that come to mind right now as being amongst the top SG's.

This...

Michael Jordan shot 50% FG and 35-40% 3PT ONCE for pete's sake. 50-40-(90? 80?) is reserved for the elite shooters. Bird, Nash, Dirk types, etc.

EDIT: Just to point out how ridiculous it is to expect DeMar to shoot at that level. Let's just assume he was shooting like that.

He currently attempts:
17.9 FGA
3.6 3PA
5.8 FTA

So shooting 50% FG, 40% 3PA and maintaining his 82.7% FT puts him at:

24.1ppg
59.0% TS

This would make him among the best and most efficient scorers in NBA history... Not realistic to ask

[JawsGT]

It's not necessary at all. Even if it takes us 3 years to rebuild the team, DeRozan is still locked up for those 3 years and would only be 27. And as I've said a few times he's paid like a 4th option on a contending team (go look at most contenders and their 4th highest or sometimes 5th highest player is in DD's salary range).

You trade him if you get a great offer that you can't refuse. You don't look to dump him to tank. He's not Rudy Gay who's 27 and getting paid $19M a year.

You don't shop him either. You don't want any other GM in the league thinking you may be willing to trade Demar. You want GM's calling you about Demar, not the other way around. You shop Demar and you don't get nearly as much. Let them come to you with this kid MU!! Plus, trading Demar is a tanking move. You can move Gay without tanking, but I think moving Demar (and maybe Lowry) are clear tanking moves, and although I am open to the idea, I do not think this is the route MU will take. I'm starting to think he may have been brought in to rebuild without tanking.

[The Great One]

DD has shown some good qualities. But we are still a losing team. The problem with trading Gay is his contract. Lowry will be easier to dump.

They are losing because DeRozan is not getting any help.

Rudy Gay has regressed BIG TIME this year. Kyle Lowry is up and down. JV is still very raw. And then there's Dwane Casey.

[Dino4life]

I've always supported DD, players i'd keep in order have always been
1-JV 2-DD 3-Amir(mental & Locker room more then stats) 4-Ross.
But I don't think any of them are top 10 material, but they could grow togheter and play better than the sum of their parts and we'd need more Young cheap players to compliment them, and those come from the draft, so DD's improvements don't warrant an Abort mission, just making it clear the other guy who makes twice as much and is 4 years older is the one who needs to go.

Operation Tank is still on.

[The Great One]

He's not THE future. But if I was the GM, he's definitely a big part of it.

This.

[Burnit482]

FINALLY people are giving demar some god damn credit. Its about time. This kid can be a key piece to a championship team. He is not the only piece to a championship team and besides Lebron i argue no one in the league at this moment is. With lebron on your team you have like a 90% chance of going to the finals. But this guy can score. He is creative and take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. i can see him reaching a point of being a Kobe LIKE scorer. you look the his moves, explosiveness its there. I am not saying he is Kobe or will be to be clear.

I think he's making great decisions on when to drive when to shoot when to take a pull up etc. His passing is very underrated IMO but still needs work and i think that will be the focus next year. You guys saying he's not good at defence… PROVE IT to me. Cuse he's passing every eye test accept for two. He gets caught on screens and when he guards shooters he struggles. But thats the same as a guy like JV struggling against big C's or someone like Asik (a big C) guarding JV. Its very difficult in this league to be able to guard every single style of player effectively and everyone minus a star defensive talent struggles with certain style of players. Its just another thing to improve on.

He's 24… he's not even in his prime and you all want to get rid of him. OPEN YOUR GOD DAMN EYES. The dude is a talent that any team would be lucky to have. Not to mention loyal hard worker and wants to f***ing win. I do see what some people say about sell high but this is a guy i want on my team. I am convinced if he had a guy like Luol Deng beside him instead of Gay this team with some chemistry would be the 3rd best team (with an actual deserving record) in the east. And could grow into a contender. Yes that is a bit of a stretch but gay is the biggest problem on this team. If we wanna tank make him the #1 option if we wanna win however he needs to go and re-evaluate after that.

[Rapstor4Life]

Raps are losing because until the 4th quarter Gay doesnt hit any shots and only turns the ball over, if Gay was hitting at least 40% of his shots these games would be much different. Ujiri would have his hands full cause he would be diseccting an athletic and talented team with a record of

possibly 9-5 instead of 6-8. I cant believe Rudy came in this season sucking this bad guy is playing like Bargnani was last season... wtf stay away from 06 draftees!

[Burnit482]

BTW anyone else pissed ball was in rudy's hands not Demars last night at the final shot? … I specifically remember Casey mentioning that when Demar is hot he will get ball and vice versa when its rudy… Rudy was what 2-11? with 7 TO ….

[octothorp]

I do think there's a problem with saying "Here's what he's done over the last five games! These are Kevin Durant numbers!!" Because what makes Kevin Durant's numbers awesome is that he does it over a season. There are more than a few players in the league who can put up those sorts of numbers over short streaks. I'm rooting for him to keep it up, But even if he can keep his scoring averages in the low 20s with a 3pt % around .375, that would be impressive.

However, for me the biggest issue is that as bad as Gay has been, he's still often drawing double-teams and creating space for DeRozan. If the plan was to build around DeRozan, either that means keeping Gay to create space and opportunity for DeRozan, in which case you're paying huge money for a low-efficiency complimentary player and limiting the amount your team can improve; or, you trade Gay and hope that DeRozan can keep up his numbers playing beside a wing who doesn't draw the same attention from defenses.

[Burnit482]

This.

I do think there's a problem with saying "Here's what he's done over the last five games! These are Kevin Durant numbers!!" Because what makes Kevin Durant's numbers awesome is that he does it over a season. There are more than a few players in the league who can put up those sorts of numbers over short streaks. I'm rooting for him to keep it up, But even if he can keep his scoring averages in the low 20s with a 3pt % around .375, that would be impressive.

However, for me the biggest issue is that as bad as Gay has been, he's still often drawing double-teams and creating space for DeRozan. If the plan was to build around DeRozan, either that means keeping Gay to create space and opportunity for DeRozan, in which case you're paying huge money for a low-efficiency complimentary player and limiting the amount your team can improve; or, you trade Gay and hope that DeRozan can keep up his numbers playing beside a wing who doesn't draw the same attention from defenses.

If you get a 3pt shooting SF to replace him that will take care of that IMO keep the defence honest or people can see Demar's passing game because unlike Rudy he actually knows how to pass the ball. Hell id start Steve Novak at the 3 and have Gay come off the bench like a Jamal Crawford… would never happen for obvious reasons but that'd be a win win.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Any SG with shooting stats like that isn't just an elite player, they are a superstar. And it was you that said he needed to average that in order for YOU to be satisfied. Satisfied with what? His classification as an elite player? Does the guy need to be an elite player in order to have a place on this team going forward? Or does your expectations of his improvement have something to do with BC's bs and franchise player label that was so inappropriately out on the guy? The only thing Demar needs to do right now to be considered elite is become a lockdown defender. He does that, and continues to play offense like he has, and he is arguably the best SG in the league. Both Ellis and Harden are better scorers, but neither has very good defense, and those are the two guys that come to mind right now as being amongst the top SG's.

You missed my point completely.

It was the OP that deemed DeRozan to be an elite talent, not me. In order for me to consider any player who does nothing other than score (ie: DeRozan) to be an "elite talent", he would have to score with that level of efficiency (and I said target 50%/35%, meaning nearing those numbers, not necessarily achieving them).

I don't believe DeRozan is or ever will be an elite talent. Therefore, I would never suggest holding him up to expectations that should be reserved for truly elite players (ie: the aforementioned 50%/35% targets).

I do hope/believe DeRozan can continue to improve his scoring efficiency, as he's demonstrated over the past few games. I want him to prove himself capable to doing so consistently, before I change my opinion of him though (mainly because scoring is still all he does).

Until he does that, my preference would still be to trade him while his value is at peak levels, IF a worthwhile trade is available (I have never suggested dumping him).

[Shrub]

Noooooo waaaaaaay.

This thread is the product of fan goggles.

I continue to like what I see from DeRozan and he really is quite an interesting player.
If he just continues to gradually improve, he could wind up being one of the most useful veterans in the league.

But right now he is a second tier shooting guard.

I really wouldn't be surprised if he defies standard logic and slowly and steadily becomes elite, but he's not there yet.

[OldSkoolCool]

DD is not an elite player...he doesn't play good D, he is an empty scorer who provides little in the way of assists/rebounds

oh, and he is anti-clutch, he doesn't play well when the game is on the line, only when we are down by 10 or more...which is a kind of a big deal when winning requires you to be ahead.....