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Is Demar Derozan the real future of this franchise?

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  • #76
    Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    why cant DeMar just be a guy that puts 20+ ppg and 3-4 asts a night as a second option? Scoring is what he does let him continue to get better at it and don't complain that he doesnt rebound SGs usually don't we have 4s and 5s for that.

    DeMar would be a way better scorer than Harden if he got the calls Harden does.
    I liked this because of the first sentence.

    I think people have a misconception about "getting calls" though. Harden gets calls because he's elite and very smart at drawing fouls. It's not because the refs are showing favouritism to him, it's a direct result of him using his skills to MAKE the other team foul him when he goes to the basket.

    DeRozan is not on Harden's level as a scorer. Which is fine since we're not paying him 15M a year.

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    • #77
      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      What's does JV do at an elite level?


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Highest TS% ever for a rook C:

      http://o.canada.com/sports/basketbal...s-valanciunas/
      "Stop eating your sushi."
      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
      - Jack Armstrong

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      • #78
        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        What's does JV do at an elite level?


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Absolutely nothing.

        This is something people need to understand with JV and temper their expectations a little bit. He's not some franchise-saviour like a lot of people are making him out to be. I see him as a complementary piece much like what DeRozan is. Can't be the main guy, but sure as heck can be a #2 or #3 on a title contender.

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        • #79
          Shrub wrote: View Post
          Noooooo waaaaaaay.

          This thread is the product of fan goggles.

          I continue to like what I see from DeRozan and he really is quite an interesting player.
          If he just continues to gradually improve, he could wind up being one of the most useful veterans in the league.

          But right now he is a second tier shooting guard.

          I really wouldn't be surprised if he defies standard logic and slowly and steadily becomes elite, but he's not there yet.
          thread should have ended after this post
          @sweatpantsjer

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          • #80
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            You missed my point completely.

            It was the OP that deemed DeRozan to be an elite talent, not me. In order for me to consider any player who does nothing other than score (ie: DeRozan) to be an "elite talent", he would have to score with that level of efficiency (and I said target 50%/35%, meaning nearing those numbers, not necessarily achieving them).

            I don't believe DeRozan is or ever will be an elite talent. Therefore, I would never suggest holding him up to expectations that should be reserved for truly elite players (ie: the aforementioned 50%/35% targets).

            I do hope/believe DeRozan can continue to improve his scoring efficiency, as he's demonstrated over the past few games. I want him to prove himself capable to doing so consistently, before I change my opinion of him though (mainly because scoring is still all he does).

            Until he does that, my preference would still be to trade him while his value is at peak levels, IF a worthwhile trade is available (I have never suggested dumping him).
            Fair enough, I gotcha...my bad.

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            • #81
              Nosike wrote: View Post
              DeRozan is not that caliber of player.

              I don't understand why he needs to put up 21-5-5 in order to be a long-term guy on this team. There are only a few players in the league that put up those kind of numbers.
              I hate the 21-5-5 thing for a number of reasons. If all Demar needed to be considered a top 10 player in the league period was 1.5 rebs more and 2.5 more assists I think we'd be having championship talks right now. Andre Igoudala once put up 20-5.6-4.8 and no one would call him elite.

              Derozan is a good offensive player who isn't a liability on defense. If he keeps up the current level of play though, he could be more than that.

              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              What's does JV do at an elite level?


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              He's a center, eventually it is hoped he will develop into a great defender. He already has pretty good instincts, he's just still not strong enough to deal with some of the crazy athletes in the NBA. When he was drafted most people were not expecting him to be a great scorer. In fact his scoring has been a pleasant surprise. People thought he could fill a Tyson Chandler of Joachim Noah role and be a franchise player for his defense, rebounding and hustle. It will come, he is adjusting well to the NBA, once he get's a bit stronger and learns how to defend without fouling he'll be a force. Think Noah with better touch.
              "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

              -Churchill

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              • #82
                DeRozan is going to have a similar career path to Monta Ellis. Monta Ellis is a scorer and that's about it. Ellis is a good player to have but there is also a reason why he hasn't been able to elevate his teams into playoff contention.

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                • #83
                  planetmars wrote: View Post
                  DeRozan is going to have a similar career path to Monta Ellis. Monta Ellis is a scorer and that's about it. Ellis is a good player to have but there is also a reason why he hasn't been able to elevate his teams into playoff contention.
                  Yeah, his teams were terrible. It's funny how easily the narrative about a player can change once they're on a good team.

                  "Oh that guy's not a winner, he can't contribute to a winning team"

                  Same nonsense that people used to say about Zach Randolph, "cancer", "empty stats", etc. He goes to a very talented Memphis team with an excellent philosophy on the defensive end and all of a sudden he's one of the most highly rated PFs in the NBA.

                  At the end of the day it's a team sport. The only guys who can "elevate" bad teams into playoff contention are LeBron and maybe Durant. Even Chris Paul wasn't doing anything in New Orleans before they assembled that nice squad with David West, Chandler and Peja.
                  Last edited by Masai Ujiri; Thu Nov 28, 2013, 11:38 AM.

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                  • #84
                    Nosike wrote: View Post
                    Yeah, his teams were terrible. It's funny how easily the narrative about a player can change once they're on a good team.

                    "Oh that guy's not a winner, he can't contribute to a winning team"

                    Same nonsense that people used to say about Zach Randolph, "cancer", "empty stats", etc. He goes to a very talented Memphis team with an excellent philosophy on the defensive end and all of a sudden he's one of the most highly rated PFs in the NBA.

                    At the end of the day it's a team sport. The only guys who can "elevate" bad teams into playoff contention are LeBron and maybe Durant. Even Chris Paul wasn't doing anything in New Orleans before they assembled that nice squad with David West, Chandler and Peja.
                    Paul elevated his game in his 3rd year, which coincided with New Orleans rise from 39 win team (Year 2) to a 56 win team (Year 3 of Paul's career). David West was there when Paul got drafted. They acquired Chandler and Peja after Paul's rookie season.

                    Paul raised his game in almost every category from Year 2 to Year 3
                    PPG 17.3 -> 21.1
                    FGA 13.6 -> 16.1
                    FG% 43.7 -> 48.8
                    3PA 2.2 -> 3.1
                    3P% 35% -> 36.9%
                    APG 8.9 -> 11.6
                    SPG 1.8 -> 2.7

                    To say that New Orleans rise was because of the other acquisitions and not because Paul elevated his game is wrong.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                    • #85
                      Axel wrote: View Post
                      Paul elevated his game in his 3rd year, which coincided with New Orleans rise from 39 win team (Year 2) to a 56 win team (Year 3 of Paul's career). David West was there when Paul got drafted. They acquired Chandler and Peja after Paul's rookie season.

                      Paul raised his game in almost every category from Year 2 to Year 3
                      PPG 17.3 -> 21.1
                      FGA 13.6 -> 16.1
                      FG% 43.7 -> 48.8
                      3PA 2.2 -> 3.1
                      3P% 35% -> 36.9%
                      APG 8.9 -> 11.6
                      SPG 1.8 -> 2.7

                      To say that New Orleans rise was because of the other acquisitions and not because Paul elevated his game is wrong.
                      Actually it's not wrong at all. It may have been wrong if I said it's SOLELY because of the other acquisitions, but that's not what I said. Tyson Chandler and David West also had marked improvements in their games and statistics as well that year.

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                      • #86
                        Nosike wrote: View Post
                        Yeah, his teams were terrible. It's funny how easily the narrative about a player can change once they're on a good team.

                        "Oh that guy's not a winner, he can't contribute to a winning team"

                        Same nonsense that people used to say about Zach Randolph, "cancer", "empty stats", etc. He goes to a very talented Memphis team with an excellent philosophy on the defensive end and all of a sudden he's one of the most highly rated PFs in the NBA.

                        At the end of the day it's a team sport. The only guys who can "elevate" bad teams into playoff contention are LeBron and maybe Durant. Even Chris Paul wasn't doing anything in New Orleans before they assembled that nice squad with David West, Chandler and Peja.
                        I'm basically responding to the thread title.. DeMar being the future of this franchise is similar to Ellis being the future of whatever franchise he played/plays on. Sure GSW/Milwaukee were crap teams, but Ellis didn't make the teams better. He was just a part of crappy teams.

                        With the right team DeMar could do well, but you could say that about anyone. Beasley may win a championship this year.. What I'm trying to say is that DeMar being a focal point does not help (it didn't work for Ellis). So if he was a 3rd or 4th option would that be better? Well as a 3rd/4th option his usage goes down and his offense isn't as important anymore. So if he doesn't do any of the other things well like rebound/pass/defend/etc, then is he a worthy 3rd/4th option? Or would it be better to get a specialist that is paid less?

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                        • #87
                          Nosike wrote: View Post
                          Actually it's not wrong at all. It may have been wrong if I said it's SOLELY because of the other acquisitions, but that's not what I said. Tyson Chandler and David West also had marked improvements in their games and statistics as well that year.

                          Based on what? Your impeccable perception from 6 years ago?

                          Look at the stats from 2006-2007 to 2007-2008 (Chris Paul's 2nd season vs 3rd season).

                          Chandler - best known for defence, rebounding, scoring at the rim
                          Same Minutes per game
                          Same FG% (62%)
                          Less RPG (12.4 -> 11.7)
                          Less BPG (1.8 -> 1.1)

                          West - scoring, rebounding
                          MPG went up by 1.3 minutes
                          Scoring went from 18.3 to 20.6 (less than 2PPG) while taking 2 more shots per game (15.2 -> 17.2)
                          Rebounding went from 8.2 to 8.9 (increase of the exact amount Chandler decreased - so can we call it a wash?)

                          Peja - 3PT shooting, scoring
                          3PA per game went up from 6.5 to 6.8 but his scoring went down from 17.8 to 16.4

                          Do you call this a "marked improvement" for any of these players?

                          Chris Paul improved his scoring (3.8 PPG improvement), his assists (2.7 APG improvement), FG% (.051% improvement), 3P% (1.9% improvement) and steals (0.9 or 50% improvement). That is what I call a marked improvement.

                          To discount that the improvement from 39 wins to 56 wins wasn't largely the by-product of Chris Paul's emergence is ridiculous if all you got is Chandler, West and Peja. Paul carried that team on his back and those players came along for the ride. To say that he didn't do anything before they came along is still wrong, since they were on the team before the team emerged and the only "marked" improvement was made by Paul himself.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                          • #88
                            Let's all go back to the title and question of this thread. Is Demar Derozan the real future of this franchise?

                            I've been saying this for a while now and caught a lot of flack from some posters. In my opinion, Demar IS the future of this franchise. I haven't seen anything from anyone else (25 years old or younger) that shows different. JV is a good player and so is Ross BUT Demar is the best player we have.

                            21.6 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.6 apg while shooting 40% on 3s with a 17.76 PER - enough said.

                            Those are pretty good numbers for a shooting guard. I would like to see more assists per game from him, but i think he's slowly getting better in that regard. We should see more assists as his playmaking improves.

                            The guy is only 3 years older than JV and 2 years older than Ross.

                            Please don't confuse "future" for franchise player. I think there are only a handful of players that should be classified as franchise players in this league. We have no one on the Raptors that have shown that they can be a franchise player IMO.

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                            • #89
                              hateslosing wrote: View Post
                              Time for a overly optimistic, unrealistic post!
                              I think 90% of the posters seemed to have missed this key line in the OP.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                              • #90
                                I think Demar can't be the face of the franchise until he learns to play though double teams. Every time he gets doubled he gets flustered and starts playing trash.

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