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Is Demar Derozan the real future of this franchise?

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  • in fact the way hes been playing BC made one last and only genius move in extending the guy hes becoming a stud. GIVE HIM AND JV A BETTER SUPPORTING CAST AND WE GOT SOMETHING INTERESTING HERE!

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    • Nosike wrote: View Post
      This has been my entire point in this thread. If you saw my first post I scoffed at the OP's notion that DD was a superstar franchise player who we should build around. But I've also been trying to show that he's worth his money and a legitimate #2 or #3 on a contending team (depending on how good 1 and/or 2 are).
      Fair enough. My comment wasn't meant for one person in particular. It just seems like we've gotten to a point where both sides have dug their heels in so far that everything DD does deteriorates into a chance for one side to prove the other side wrong. One side tries to discredit any success he has while the other wants to blow it out of proportion. The truth is, and has been for a while, somewhere in the middle.
      Last edited by Fully; Mon Dec 2, 2013, 12:47 PM.

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      • Axel wrote: View Post
        According to NBA.com's player tracker data on the season:
        24.1% of Demar's rebounds are contested boards. That's 0.9 contested boards per game of his 3.9 boards. They say he has 5.6 rebound chances per game FWIW.

        Gay's numbers are similar at 22.1% of his rebounds being contested. That's 1.5 of his 6.9 per game.

        Contested, as per NBA.com, is a rebound gathered with an opponent within 3.5 feet. Rebound chance is where a player is within 3.5 feet of a rebound.
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        • Fully wrote: View Post
          Fair enough. My comment wasn't meant for one person in particular. It just seems like we've gotten to a point where both sides have dug their heels in so far that everything DD does deteriorates into a chance for one side to prove the other side wrong. One side tries to discredit any success he has while the other wants to blow it out of proportion. The truth is, and has been for a while, somewhere in the middle.
          Yeah like saying DeRozan doesn't do anything except score, then when he has back to back high rebound games, saying his rebounds don't mean anything because they weren't contested.

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          • Nosike wrote: View Post
            Yeah like saying DeRozan doesn't do anything except score, then when he has back to back high rebound games, saying his rebounds don't mean anything because they weren't contested.
            Yes, that would apply.

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            • Axel wrote: View Post
              According to NBA.com's player tracker data on the season:
              24.1% of Demar's rebounds are contested boards. That's 0.9 contested boards per game of his 3.9 boards. They say he has 5.6 rebound chances per game FWIW.

              Gay's numbers are similar at 22.1% of his rebounds being contested. That's 1.5 of his 6.9 per game.

              Contested, as per NBA.com, is a rebound gathered with an opponent within 3.5 feet. Rebound chance is where a player is within 3.5 feet of a rebound.
              Paul George has 10.0 rebound chances per game and a contested percentage of 26.9. What's your point?

              DeRozan is grabbing 69% of his rebound chances.
              Paul George 61.2%

              Hell only 20.2% of LeBron's rebounds are contested.

              There's no sense in throwing out that statistic without using some other players as comparison points. I don't think anyone even knows what the league average or SG average for those stats are.
              Last edited by Masai Ujiri; Mon Dec 2, 2013, 02:29 PM.

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              • Now he's taking on a leadership role, another piece of development.

                “I don’t know (what it is),” he said. “We shouldn’t have to keep doing the same thing over and over until we realize we’re doing something wrong. We’ve got to understand what we’re doing from off the gate and correct it on the run. We can’t wait until the next game, or the next practice. We got to get this right, we’re professionals. We’ve got to get it on the go.”
                http://www.hoopsworld.com/frustrated...-out-teammates
                "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                -Churchill

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                • Nosike wrote: View Post
                  Paul George has 10.0 rebound chances per game and a contested percentage of 26.9. What's your point?

                  DeRozan is grabbing 69% of his rebound chances.
                  Paul George 61.2%
                  If you read my other posts, I completely say that the stats are just being put out there for people to make of them what they wish. The tracking stats are still too new to make any real comparisons, but since the question was raised about whether Demar's rebounds are just "easy" boards vs contested boards, and there is a stat for that, might as well add it. Just contributing info to the conversation.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • Yup call out your team mates especially Rudy. Rudy came to Toronto and said DeMar is the best SG I've ever played with some people said lol really? well it turns out he was right but somewhere between then and now DeMar became better than Rudy and im detecting Jealousy building.

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                    • Nosike wrote: View Post
                      Paul George has 10.0 rebound chances per game and a contested percentage of 26.9. What's your point?

                      DeRozan is grabbing 69% of his rebound chances.
                      Paul George 61.2%

                      Hell only 20.2% of LeBron's rebounds are contested.

                      There's no sense in throwing out that statistic without using some other players as comparison points. I don't think anyone even knows what the league average or SG average for those stats are.
                      There's no way 4.0 rebounds in 38 minutes is good for a player who's probably between 6'6'' and 6'7''.

                      DeMar is grabbing 69 % of his rebound chances....Ok, well that just means that given his actual rebound numbers, he's not crashing the glass often enough to come away with more. Not actually giving himself as many chances as he should. This is even worse. It's not "he's trying to rebound but he's just doing as well as he can"...It's "he could do a lot better if he actually made the effort to get after it". This is an effort/awareness issue. He's too passive, or eager to leak out (before possession is even secure), or something like that...

                      Love or hate DeMar, his rebounding numbers have always been subpar given his size, strength and athletic ability. He's had some decent games/stretches, but he's never maintained the kind of numbers you'd hope for from him.

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                      • SGs never usually rebound, i'd rather him keep bringing up his ast numbers, scoring and efficiency then focus on some defensive hustle... seriously Rebounding is a worry for the guy here? leave that to the bigs and SF.

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                        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          There's no way 4.0 rebounds in 38 minutes is good for a player who's probably between 6'6'' and 6'7''.

                          DeMar is grabbing 69 % of his rebound chances....Ok, well that just means that given his actual rebound numbers, he's not crashing the glass often enough to come away with more. Not actually giving himself as many chances as he should. This is even worse. It's not "he's trying to rebound but he's just doing as well as he can"...It's "he could do a lot better if he actually made the effort to get after it". This is an effort/awareness issue. He's too passive, or eager to leak out (before possession is even secure), or something like that...

                          Love or hate DeMar, his rebounding numbers have always been subpar given his size, strength and athletic ability. He's had some decent games/stretches, but he's never maintained the kind of numbers you'd hope for from him.
                          But this also comes down to whether or not Casey wants Demar crashing the boards or leaking out.
                          I'm going to guess, since we've got Rudy, JV and Amir/Tyler, Demar has not been tasked with staying back and collecting rebounds. And rightfully so.

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                          • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            But this also comes down to whether or not Casey wants Demar crashing the boards or leaking out.
                            I'm going to guess, since we've got Rudy, JV and Amir/Tyler, Demar has not been tasked with staying back and collecting rebounds. And rightfully so.
                            This kinda ties into my warning on the stats provided. Just to remind people...

                            Axel wrote: View Post
                            The new site is cool but definitely can be misleading and confusing at times. Tons of info, but at this point, we don't really know what a good contested rebounding % should look like, but since the comment was about the number of "easy" boards I thought it was appropriate to put the stats out there at least and let people make of it what they want.

                            It's 0.9 contested boards, but 3.9 total. So for his 5.6 chances, he gets 3.9, 3 of which are "uncontested". So theoretically, he gets 0.9 of 2.0 contested opportunities each game (assuming he doesn't miss any uncontested opportunities). So when he is in position to actually "win" a rebound, he's about 50%, but we don't know how often he should be in position but isn't.

                            The data can't show the effort to get into position for a chance. Also doesn't seem to differentiate between offensive/defensive boards. Scheme based rebounding responsibilities and box-outs.
                            Very raw data to be sure, but it's a cool place to start.
                            As for what Casey wants, based on the fact that we are one of the lowest "fast-break" teams in the league, I'd wager that Demar isn't supposed to be leaking out too much. Only 10% of our team's points are scored on the fast break, tied for 3rd fewest ahead of only the Knicks and Nets (too fairly unathletic teams). With the athletic players we have, we should be running more, but since we're not, we damn well better be boxing out and grabbing boards.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                            • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                              But this also comes down to whether or not Casey wants Demar crashing the boards or leaking out.
                              I'm going to guess, since we've got Rudy, JV and Amir/Tyler, Demar has not been tasked with staying back and collecting rebounds. And rightfully so.
                              I think that's being a bit too forgiving, as well as making a major assumption and providing a bad excuse. If I were a defensive coach (as Casey is supposed to be), no one would be allowed to leak out like that often. Securing the board would be the most important thing (kinda pointless to leak out otherwise). DeMar has had this trend under 2 different coaches. Also, rebounding has been a major team issue in all DeMar's previous years. Don't think coaches of teams that are frequently getting beat on the glass would stress leaking out over securing the board.

                              *Also, doesn't everyone think that just about every coach at the NBA level would make leaking out situational, not positional? It doesn't matter if it's Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol leaking out so much as it matters that they're doing it at the right time, and at all other times, they should be crashing the glass.
                              Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Dec 2, 2013, 03:18 PM.

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                              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                                I think that's being a bit too forgiving, as well as making a major assumption and providing a bad excuse. If I were a defensive coach (as Casey is supposed to be), no one would be allowed to leak out like that often. Securing the board would be the most important thing (kinda pointless to leak out otherwise). DeMar has had this trend under 2 different coaches. Also, rebounding has been a major team issue in all DeMar's previous years. Don't think coaches of teams that are frequently getting beat on the glass would stress leaking out over securing the board.
                                Agreed also look at teams like Indiana where they have George, West, Hibbert, Scola yet Stephenson still manages to pull down 7 a game. DeMar has the ability to put up numbers close to that but chooses not to.

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