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Thread: Who to Trade, or not to Trade?

  1. #1
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    Default Who to Trade, or not to Trade?

    Whether you believe that The Raps should tank and get their future centerpeice or whether you believe that they should take advantage of their week division/conference and go for a playoff birth and a series win isn't the goal of this thread. The thread is to discuss who we should trade and who we should keep and what direction that puts our team in going forward.

    So, to start off I believe the Raps should get Rudy the hell out of here as soon as he starts playing close to the level he can and raises his value to close to what it was when The Raptors traded for him. I don't see why Masai is in a rush to trade him, might aswell get him playing better and get his trade value up to as high as it can get (Sort of like Demars at the moment).

    Next off I believe either one of Psycho T or Amir needs to be dealt as well. Get another pick and a filler, which ever one it is who gets dealt doesn't matter to me. I like both guys and think they could both be a useful peice on a championship caliber team.

    As for Lowry and Derozan, I'm up in the air. I see no reason why we wouldn't be able to use Demar and Jonas as our future 2-3 options on offense, hopefully get the third peice in this stacked draft class, and get a couple solid peices with our first rounders we would get from Rudy and either Amir or Tyler. However, as mentioned aboved Demar's value is HIGH right now with his recent play and on his contract, I'm sure Masai could get some peices for our team. Personally, I'm fine with either option. I like Lowry as a competitor and besides Demar he has been the best Raptor this season. I don't see him in our future, but I hope he is. He's shown he's willing to change his style for the team (becoming less of a shooter). But the same thing with Demar, if Masai can work his magic than by all means go ahead.

    So if this plan was followed we'd hopefully have 4 first round picks (Lowry/Derozan, Gay, Amir/Tyler and our own)

    And some solid peices that along with our draft picks could make us contenders fairly quick

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I wonder if any of these guys, alone or as a package, can net us 1st rounders, especially 2014 1st rounders. that will depend, of course, on our trading partners, which are certainly limited for a guy like Gay. He is the guy that I think needs to go the most. And I don't buy into this idea that his value is low because the way he is playing. Gay has been around awhile and I'm sure most GM's know what he is and what they would be getting if they were to acquire him.

    I also don't buy into trading DD because his stock is high. If you can get valuable pieces/picks in return right now then yeah, it's definitely a consideration. But I think DD can be a piece on this team going forward, and I also think he will look more attractive to GM's in coming seasons because I think he will continue to improve and make his contract that much better. I'd like to see him stay but I won't argue against a trade that makes this team better going forward. In any event, I don't see the need to move DD or even shop the guy. But Rudy has to go, and another wing too IMO, either Novak, Daye, or Fields. I like Ross and I try to keep him too. Right now, I'm open to anything but I'd like to see JV, DD, Amir and Ross remaining on the team.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Gonna set this into tiers. It's the only way.

    Who I want gone:

    Rudy Gay - Consummate chucker. Doesn't really do anything to help the team per se other than make amazing clutch shots at the end of close games. It's really kind of amazing.
    Kyle Lowry - Surly point guard who marches to the beat of his own drum. Always looks like he's mad at someone. Doesn't run pick and roll for some reason. Good hustle and scorer.
    Augustine: Because i hate him

    Who's actually worth something:

    Demar Derozen - Pure scorer. Had added 3 point shot to arsenal. Surprisingly been more efficient this season. Contract is dumb but not too dumb. Would be a good Robin to someone's Batman if they play well together.
    Amir Johnson - Hustle guy. Does everything well, but nothing particularly great. Type of guy analytics fans are big on. Needs to stop taking 3's.
    Steve Novak - 3 point shooter. Does nothing else particularly well. But he's like a unicorn of 3 point shooting. A freaking unicorn, man.
    Terrence Ross - 3 and D guy who's slowly blossomed into his role. Needs more minutes to develop. Has high upside but needs coach who isn't a frigging idiot to utilize him properly. At his best in transition. Great defender.
    Tyler Hansbrough - Hustle guy. Somewhat crazy. Really reasonable contract. Pest. Type of player contenders need.

    Player who'll most likely actually be traded:

    Lowry:
    One of Gay/Derozen: Would honestly be sad to see Demar go but if it nets picks or young diamonds in the rough you kind of have to do it
    One of Amir/Psycho T: It is what it is, i guess.
    Novak: Pure shooters are in high demand
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Who I want?

    Lowy - expiring contract and want to get as much value from him before he potentially walks. Also he has been completely nudered by Casey and needs a fresh start

    Gay - contract nightmare, awful team player

    DD - Sell high on his value, if we can net a wicked set of picks/prospects for him I would give Ujiri a big ole' kiss. I know some people think DD can be a apart of a future franchise...but it depends on how that franchise wants to be built. If we want it built around team oriented, system players who play hard D and are all able to run the PnR...then DD isn't that guy and we might as well use him as a way to get to that team composition

    Novak/TH - a boarderline playoff team near the deadline that could use some shooting/bench PF could give up some good assets for this duo...if they don't go however that fine by me

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    I used to think that you trade when you maximize your asset but Masai threw that out the window when he got rid of El Primo Dick bag....

    If he can get rid of Lowry & Gay... for who? I have no idea.

    And see if we can get rid of Field's also. As great as he is or could be, he's become a liability.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Gonna set this into tiers. It's the only way.

    Who I want gone:
    Rudy Gay - Consummate chucker. Doesn't really do anything to help the team per se other than make amazing clutch shots at the end of close games. It's really kind of amazing.
    I opposed the Rudy trade when it was still only a rumour and considered it proof that BC simply had no idea how to build a coherent basketball team, so yeah.

    Masai was obviously hoping that we could get more for Rudy than the Stuckey/Villaneuva offer Detroit was floating on the basis that Rudy would have a good season; at this point, I would take Stuckey/Villaneuva pretty much in a second. Rudy's become one of the league laughingstocks this year. That doesn't mean Masai can't get some value for him - it only takes one GM to fall in love or convince themselves that they can turn Rudy around, much like New York decided they could turn Bargs around - but I think Masai can't wait on Rudy. At some point even the pupu platter offers are going to disappear; it's that bad. And you need Rudy gone, because you really can't make any moves in 2015 if Rudy wants that $19m payday.

    Kyle Lowry - Surly point guard who marches to the beat of his own drum. Always looks like he's mad at someone. Doesn't run pick and roll for some reason. Good hustle and scorer.
    Lowry runs drive-and-kick as his primary offense, and there's nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good point guards in the NBA aren't primarily pick-n-roll guards (Russell Westbrook is the most obvious case), and Lowry CAN run the pick-n-roll quite well; the problem is that he's on a team where two players who aren't pick-n-roll recipients dominate the offense so there aren't a lot of opportunities for him. Plus his output this season has been pretty good for someone with a broken finger. Lowry is very tradeable. He would actually be a perfect fit in Chicago.

    Augustine: Because i hate him
    Augustin is bad, but that's why you keep him this year: Augustin as your starting point guard is a no-lose proposition for us. Either he plays badly and fires up our tank and then we turf him next year, or he plays well and we trade him at the deadline for a second-rounder or something for a team who thinks he can be a credible backup. Plus, Augustin's a mediocre shooter but he does know how to run the pick-n-roll so if you want Jonas getting a lot of experience setting picks, he'll be fine.

    Who's actually worth something:

    Demar Derozen - Pure scorer. Had added 3 point shot to arsenal. Surprisingly been more efficient this season. Contract is dumb but not too dumb. Would be a good Robin to someone's Batman if they play well together.
    DeMar's value is probably higher than it's ever been right now after this last six-game stretch. It really depends: Masai might think he's worth keeping to become Wiggins (or whoever's) secondary option. Or he might decide to trade him depending on how stupid the offers get. Either/or.

    Amir Johnson - Hustle guy. Does everything well, but nothing particularly great. Type of guy analytics fans are big on. Needs to stop taking 3's.
    Amir is great and everybody knows it, but nobody knows it well enough to offer him the $9m per year or so he's probably due after next year. Unless Masai gets offered something far too rich to turn down, I think Amir stays; he's a superb glue guy on the court, wants to play here and is the ultimate team player.

    Steve Novak - 3 point shooter. Does nothing else particularly well. But he's like a unicorn of 3 point shooting. A freaking unicorn, man.
    Someone will offer 1-2 second rounders for him. Masai will take it because he's not crazy. Novak is a great piece for a playoff team. For us, he's a luxury we can't afford.

    Terrence Ross - 3 and D guy who's slowly blossomed into his role. Needs more minutes to develop. Has high upside but needs coach who isn't a frigging idiot to utilize him properly. At his best in transition. Great defender.
    As a #8 pick Ross' contract is dirt cheap (in his qualifying year option he's only $4.7m). Like Amir, he easily trumps the value of his contract already (and has potential to exceed it by much more). He's another guy who isn't going anywhere unless someone overpays.

    Tyler Hansbrough - Hustle guy. Somewhat crazy. Really reasonable contract. Pest. Type of player contenders need.
    Said it before, will say it again: Hansbrough, Augustin and Austin Daye were all signed as investments: cheap players with some opportunity to exceed their small contracts and become trade bait. Hansbrough's gone sometime this season - possibly as early as December 15. I wouldn't be surprised if Masai has a trade in place already that requires Hansbrough to be moved.

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  10. #7
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Must moves:
    Gay
    Lowry

    Not giving them away but not turning down any reasonable offer:
    Novak
    Psycho T
    Fields

    Willing to move if the price is right:
    DD
    Amir

    And I'd be willing to throw Ross in any one of these deals too if the return makes sense.

    I'm assuming all of the other guys [Augustin, Buycks, Acy, Gray, etc.] have little to no trade value.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Theshwa's Avatar
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    If we are going to trade DD and Gay, I wouldn't be surprised to see DD go first, and would recommend it. We have seen over the years that DD struggles when he is the focal point of the offense. Teams also continue to put their best wing defender on Gay. If Gay were traded we would see opponents defense putting more emphasis on DD and he go back into his old ways and struggle. DD's higher trade value definitely has something to do with Gay being around

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    TRADE PRIORITIES (by the trade deadline)

    Gay - reasons have been well documented, but basically not worth his contract

    Lowry - I prefer pass-first PG and he's on an expiring contract (asset management)

    Novak - not in the team's future, decent salary and attractive asset (3pt shooter) for playoff teams

    Hansborough - I like him, but his contract makes him a sweet trade chip


    IF GAY & LOWRY GET TRADED

    If Gay & Lowry get traded, the tank is essentially on, so I'd consider any good offer for anybody. The only players I'd try to keep are Valanciunas and Ross (great value for their contracts, young, talented, loads of potential).
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Nov 28th, 2013 at 02:07 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Must moves:
    Gay
    Lowry

    Not giving them away but not turning down any reasonable offer:
    Novak
    Psycho T
    Fields

    Willing to move if the price is right:
    DD
    Amir

    And I'd be willing to throw Ross in any one of these deals too if the return makes sense.

    I'm assuming all of the other guys [Augustin, Buycks, Acy, Gray, etc.] have little to no trade value.
    This is exactly how I feel. Only thing I'd add is that Lowry needs to be dealt before the deadline. Gay should be dealt before the deadline (mostly cause he is an awful player) but needs to go by draft night at the latest. All the other players are much more in the "wait and see" model of trade offers.
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    If Gay and Lowry are the only ones gone by trade deadline, I'm perfectly happy.
    Writer for RaptorsWatch.com

    Twitter - @thekid_it

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  19. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Lowry can stay if the right coach is brought in. He needs to be playing in a very different system. I hope he can run the p'n'r well enough. As has been mentioned elsewhere, this team needs an identity. Make the decision on Lowry's fit based on that.

    Jonas and Ross should stay. Rookie deals with lots of upside left - the team needs more of these, not less.

    Amir should stay. He's still underrated. He helps a lot in ways that aren't immediately obvious/recorded in box scores. He may have the highest b-ball IQ on this team, next to Fields.

    I'd keep DeRozan, but he also may be the most valuable trade asset. He's got a good attitude, he's still improving, and he's actually happy to be playing in T.O. - he's going to be well worth his contract. Again though, depends what's offered and if you're aiming to increase lottery odds or not.

    GAY HAS TO GO. PLEASE, PLEASE LORDS OF THE HARDWOOD. THIS IS ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS. GIVE ME A BOX OF COAL - I DON'T CARE.

    Fields is interesting and I like him, but his shot appears to be shot (nerve damage - ugh) and his contract's too high, given that fact. Flexibility and cap space are more important moving forward than what Field's able to contribute at this point.

    Everyone else on this team is a scrub, aka transaction filler. Couldn't care less.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    There is no need to move anyone. You can trade Gay and Lowry if you are able to get a good return, but I don't know that many teams would be interested. At the end of the year make Lowry a low ball offer and if he walks, well who cares. Same with Gay. Moving these guys for late picks doesn't do us much good in the long term and no one is trading high picks or good prospects this year.

    Maybe in the meantime Gay will figure out how to play in a team setting and Lowry will start running pick and rolls and we'll win a title .
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    There is no need to move anyone. You can trade Gay and Lowry if you are able to get a good return, but I don't know that many teams would be interested. At the end of the year make Lowry a low ball offer and if he walks, well who cares. Same with Gay. Moving these guys for late picks doesn't do us much good in the long term and no one is trading high picks or good prospects this year.

    Maybe in the meantime Gay will figure out how to play in a team setting and Lowry will start running pick and rolls and we'll win a title .
    How does acquiring a late 1st rounder over letting them walk not benefit us in the long-term? Even take a future pick if it's there (2016?)
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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  23. #15
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    Lowry and Gay have to go - the difficulty is finding a dance partner. As much as most people hate trade speculations I am going to throw one out there: Lowry and Gay (and possibly and 2nd rounder) to Boston for Rondo and Wallace.
    - yes the trade works dollar wise
    - Boston does the trade because they are already in tank mode - Lowry is in the last year of his contract and Gay may opt out (otherwise he is off the books at the end of next season). This gets two large contracts off the books - with 2 frist round picks in 2014 and 2015 the salary flexibility allows Boston to build a team with a good mix of free agents and young draft picks.
    - Toronto does this trade becase it gets a premier pass-first point guard in Rondo. He can't shoot as well as Lowry, but is a much better facilitator and better on the ball defender. Yes, Wallace is past his prime, but we have to take back a bad contract to unload Gay.

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    Boston isn't trading Rondo if they don't get picks back. Period. They can "rest" him for potentially winnable games if need be, and will, rather than trade him just for salary.

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    Bleacher Report shitty source I know has us listed picking 9th-10th spot. picking up a guy named Rodney Hood....he may be Hood but is he Good?

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    Can't say without knowing what's coming back, but I'm hoping DeMar, Ross, and JV are here for the long haul.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    How does acquiring a late 1st rounder over letting them walk not benefit us in the long-term? Even take a future pick if it's there (2016?)
    If Miami, for example, gives us their first rounder for Lowry, I'd rather keep Lowry until the end of the year and see if we can resign him. The same applies to Gay. These guys are both very talented, much more so than most of the players you are going to get in most drafts, much less late in the draft and keeping their bird rights for the negotiation is important. Now, if say Utah offered their number 1 that would be completely different, but getting rid of our more talented players for late picks is not what I would call a winning strategy. Gay and Lowry are good players, this isn't the Bargs scenario where it will be addition by subtraction.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    If Miami, for example, gives us their first rounder for Lowry, I'd rather keep Lowry until the end of the year and see if we can resign him. The same applies to Gay. These guys are both very talented, much more so than most of the players you are going to get in most drafts, much less late in the draft and keeping their bird rights for the negotiation is important. Now, if say Utah offered their number 1 that would be completely different, but getting rid of our more talented players for late picks is not what I would call a winning strategy. Gay and Lowry are good players, this isn't the Bargs scenario where it will be addition by subtraction.
    Ok, based on your original post saying "give him a low ball offer and if walks he walks" I assumed that you are more likely to not re-sign either player. Personally I don't think the Raps should resign either and would be better to get a future pick (to use for future trades or as a rookie scale prospect) than let them walk for nothing. If you are going to resign Lowry, that convo needs to happen well before the trade deadline. If you are close on terms, then maybe you wait till the offseason and try to make a deal but I doubt that Lowry will be worth what I expect him to demand.
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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