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Thread: Why Can't Casey Take Control of This Team?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Can you explain to me what difference, in a rough win total or winning percentage, you think the best coach in the history of mankind would be making with this roster as compared to the current staff?
    5 games over the course of season.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  2. #22
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Can you explain to me what difference, in a rough win total or winning percentage, you think the best coach in the history of mankind would be making with this roster as compared to the current staff?
    i think we can win around 45 gms with this team if its coached by SVG or Lionel H...and if we add a legit back up PG

    first round exit though

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I think the impact of coaching is underrated here. Is Spoelestra a great coach? Hard to say because he has a lot of talent on his roster, but not giving him some credit for the success of the Heat would not be fair. Not all coaches can win championships with a bunch of talented players. The best coaches have to manage the ego's that go along with the talented guys, and that is just as tough as designing the appropriate offensive or defensive system in many cases. Remember, the Heat started slow when the big3 came together, and many were wondering if Spoelestra was the right guy to lead them. A part of that slow start was due to chemistry issues btw the big3, and it's on the coaches shoulders to make sure those types of things get figured out. That being said, I'm sure there are many coaches that may have success in Miami...but how about the Kobe/Shaq Lakers? D'Antoni couldn't make a Kobe/Howard marriage work, I wonder if Phil Jackson could have? He could have very well been the only coach around that could have gotten Kobe and Shaq to play together well enough to win championships.

    So it always isn't about systems, schemes, video and analytics and all that stuff...a great coach is great because he/she can successfully manage the ego's on a team, and this becomes more important with the more talent you have on the team.

    I think it's foolish to think that the right coach (whoever that may be) could not get this current Raps roster to perform better than it has. IMO, most teams in the league underachieve, and those that don't ususally have good coaches that demand respect from their players.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Hollins said watching other teams play different styles has re-invigorated him.

    "My identity was tied to the team's identity," Hollins said of his defensive-minded, slow-paced, "grit-grind" teams in Memphis. "But the only things I'd like to be tied to were that they were tough, they were aggressive, and they never quit. The rest of it was because of who they [the Grizzlies roster] were. They were a very physical, inside dominant team. That's why we played that way. We weren't a great team in terms of taking care of the ball when we played fast, so we slowed it down.

    "When I first came to Memphis I wanted to run, and we tried to run, but it just wasn't the makeup of the team. Being out allows me to go and look at the up-tempo teams and different styles of ball movement and playing side to side that we kind of got away from because we had a dominant set of big people inside and we took advantage of it. The next team I get may not be that way. So I want to make sure I'm prepared to play whatever style is necessary for us to play."
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10...n-nba-coaching


    I betcha Lionel Hollins could take control of this team.... next year.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Matt, why do you think he doesn't have control? Who says the players aren't doing exactly what they're told?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Matt, why do you think he doesn't have control? Who says the players aren't doing exactly what they're told?
    Just rolling with the thread.

    As to your questions, I don't know the answers.

    Bottom line: Casey needs to go later (not back next year) if not sooner (mid season).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    LOL. Casey called out the reserves after today's game. I dont think they played that bad to be honest. Ross with 10pts(pretty much his average), Novak 6pts(pretty much his average) and one of their key bench guy is now starting in Hansbrough.

    If you're gonna start calling out your own players then you have to call out Rudy Gay who's been beyond horrible since game 1.
    Follow me on Twitter - @RRyan22

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  9. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Really does firing Casey get us anywhere this season? No

    Let him ride it out and bring in a veteran coach next summer.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    He's doing a fine job supporting #TankNation, so I say let him ride it out as well.
    Writer for RaptorsWatch.com

    Twitter - @thekid_it

  12. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    LOL. Casey called out the reserves after today's game. I dont think they played that bad to be honest. Ross with 10pts(pretty much his average), Novak 6pts(pretty much his average) and one of their key bench guy is now starting in Hansbrough.

    If you're gonna start calling out your own players then you have to call out Rudy Gay who's been beyond horrible since game 1.
    Casey is a lightweight. I said it last year when he threw Val and Ross under the bus rather than the guys who were the actual problem. There's a history with this coach and calling out easy targets. It's in line with moving Amir to the bench. Yeah, that was the problem. Now it's all better. Who's the easiest guy in the starting 5 to bench? Right.

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  14. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    i was just about to use that as an example. or macmillan with the blazers when they kept miraculously making the playoffs despite roy and oden going down year after year. they also had nobody



    i didn't mean to imply that coaching is >> more important than talent. it's obviously a marriage between the two. but i took umbrage with brandon's assertion that pop and spoelstra aren't integral to their teams' success.

    a generational talent like lebron can drag a team to the finals by himself with a terrible squad and worse coach. likewise, a great coach can have a huge impact on teams with questionable talent, like thibs, or like the young overachieving teams this year everyone assumed would win less than 20 games. it takes both, which is why i worry for durant as a big fan of his.

    in short, if a talented team is underachieving* i think it's wise to look hard at the coach.

    *not that i think we're very talented. i hate the makeup of this team and don't think the ceiling is much higher than the .400 winning percentage we're posting right now
    This is true, but LeBron never won a title when he dragged a team there. It's arguable that Spoe was in over his head that first season as well. Coaching is extremely important in every league. If anyone thinks the players can do it on their own, you're kidding yourself.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

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  15. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Really does firing Casey get us anywhere this season? No

    Let him ride it out and bring in a veteran coach next summer.
    Firing Casey this year does a lot. He is not teaching our young assets to play the right way. They are learning bad habits and it will be difficult for an incoming coach to turn it around for them. Casey is the wrong coach for a number of reasons (rotations, no offense, no accountability, read Rudy gay) but the biggest reason is the lack of development of our young guys. If you want to play tough you reward the guys that play tough. I'll take Acy in the lineup over Gay at this point because gay has no value in our future. Acy may not be the most skilled player we've ever seen but he works his ass off and makes the other team work for anything they get.

    This team as built is a disaster. I would like to see a concerted effort be made in developing our role players into something we can build on by bringing in better players through the draft or trade.

    Rudy Gay not get us anywhere. A core of strong role players consisting of Ross, Acy, Amir, derozan, psycho t is something to build into. With JV being our go to superstar in the future.

    Casey must go because he will not develop players will not hold guys accountable a.d does not teach the right way to play.

  16. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Probably 5-ish coaches in the league at any given time are really good and having a major positive impact on their teams. At the same time, probably 5-ish coaches are crap, hurting their teams, and will never coach again after their current gig is up. The rest are interchangeably mediocre.

    There are some good quality coaches available out there. I really hope the Raps snag one.

  17. #34
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    The article states that 14 out of 62 coaches, or 22.5%, had significant impact on individual performance.

    22.5%. More than 1 out of 5. Ain't nothing to sneeze at if you ask me.

    Edit: And for whatever reason, Berri himself added the word 'only', when saying 'only 14 out of the 62 coaches', which I find strange, because 22.5% isn't a statistically insignificant number. By writing 'only', he makes a value judgement that isn't justified. This is the second straight Berri article that I've found to be a little suspect.
    Yeah, after reading the article, I came away with the same conclusion - that coaches are, in fact, incredibly important. Just like acquiring 'elite' players is difficult, finding elite coaches are also rare.

    http://wagesofwins.com/2012/11/26/ev...s-wrong-redux/

    This is the 'money shot' quote from that WoW article....

    Coaches do matter, but not in the ways that the media tries to sell us. It’s about who they put on the court. The surprising thing is that proper allocation of those minutes is actually a rare skill

  18. #35
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    Quote consmap wrote: View Post
    i... I don't understand. So when i play basketball, you mean that i have teammates? And i have to give them the ball?
    wtf?

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    Casey would immediately become a genius coach, and materially affect the Raptors winning % if he sat Gay the first time each game he took a stupid, early in the shot clock, long 2 ball that missed.

    For Gay, straight cause and effect treatment should be implemented. Assist made - keep playing, drive to the basket for an open layup - keep playing, made basket from 12 feet - keep playing, 10 seconds of stupid ball handling at the 3 pt line before an iso play against 2 defenders - sit 5 minutes.

    Or even simpler, sit Gay for the first 3 quarters after every bad game he plays. Either Gay gets the message or he doesn't but let's face it, for the Raptors gay is a better player when he is out of the game than when he is in it.

  20. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star Superjudge's Avatar
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    Casey will be fired...... IF toronto wins more than 20 games.

  21. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    The best way to tank without making it obvious is to build leads then give it away. That's been the model of this team. Just watch the pattern.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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