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Thread: Game #16: Toronto Raptors 98 - Denver Nuggets 112

  1. #241
    Raptors Republic Starter OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    The scary thing of this game is that Val may be learning to play hero ball...which is massively detrimental to the development of the team in the future and Val specifically. We need to teach our players to be unselfish in order to BE an unselfish team

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  3. #242
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I don't recall in 18 years of Raptors ball, a team being this selfish, and broken offensively. Even the dreaded Kevin O'Neil coached team had more flow/ingenuity than this. Just mind-boggling what this team has become.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #243
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I wasn't around earlier to collect my Nostradamus points but I think I can recall someone (Me) saying that Hansbrough would be the eventual starter. I want everyone to send me five dollars.
    I want you to send me $5 for saying the Raptors would win 47 games this season, so we'll just call it even.


  5. #244
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't recall in 18 years of Raptors ball, a team being this selfish, and broken offensively. Even the dreaded Kevin O'Neil coached team had more flow/ingenuity than this. Just mind-boggling what this team has become.
    Yes and no. Several posters were concerned in the offseason over what was perceived to be a poorly constructed roster, especially the starting lineup. The starting 5 consists of 3 players that require the ball to be in their hands to be successful (Lowry, Gay & DeRozan) and 2 players that excel when playing with a pass-first PG to deliver the ball (Valanciuns & Amir). That's a recipe for disaster. It's little wonder that that 3 ball-dominant players resort to running so many selfish ISO plays, while the other two players are left floundering (and are clearing getting frustrated and are looking for their own shot more and more when they actually do get the ball).

  6. #245
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Yes and no. Several posters were concerned in the offseason over what was perceived to be a poorly constructed roster, especially the starting lineup. The starting 5 consists of 3 players that require the ball to be in their hands to be successful (Lowry, Gay & DeRozan) and 2 players that excel when playing with a pass-first PG to deliver the ball (Valanciuns & Amir). That's a recipe for disaster. It's little wonder that that 3 ball-dominant players resort to running so many selfish ISO plays, while the other two players are left floundering (and are clearing getting frustrated and are looking for their own shot more and more when they actually do get the ball).
    On top of that, you have two key guys playing for new deals (Lowry on an expiring and Gay looking to opt out and get an Iggy deal). You also have a team that is going nowhere and don't think for one second that the players don't know that despite their media soundbites. Everyone is out for himself.

  7. #246
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Yes and no. Several posters were concerned in the offseason over what was perceived to be a poorly constructed roster, especially the starting lineup. The starting 5 consists of 3 players that require the ball to be in their hands to be successful (Lowry, Gay & DeRozan) and 2 players that excel when playing with a pass-first PG to deliver the ball (Valanciuns & Amir). That's a recipe for disaster. It's little wonder that that 3 ball-dominant players resort to running so many selfish ISO plays, while the other two players are left floundering (and are clearing getting frustrated and are looking for their own shot more and more when they actually do get the ball).
    I suppose I put too much faith in the coaching staff. Despite the obvious flaws you stated, I assumed a properly coached team could counteract the players' selfish natural tendencies (to a certain degree) for the greater benefit of the team.

    Man, was I ever wrong....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #247
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Don't know if you saw Wolstat's blog on this game

    http://blogs.canoe.ca/courtside/bask...start-passing/

    Some key hilights:

    "Toronto ranked last in the 30-team NBA in assists (a whopping 32 behind the next-worst team in that regard), assist-to-turnover ratio (even though point guard Kyle Lowry ranks 10th overall) and 25th in effective field goal percentage."

    "Raptors assisted on eight of the first 11 baskets in a stellar opening quarter, before picking up only two assists in each of the second and fourth quarters."

    On Gay - "just the third time this year he’s had more helpers than turnovers"

    "Amir Johnson clearly wasn’t pleased about the demotion, even though he’s used to being the guy benched even though a far more deserving candidate keeps his starting gig (see the Andrea Bargnani experience). He’s been dealing with some personal issues all season. As I said in this space recently about Amir, sometimes life gets in the way and needs to be dealt with first, even ahead of the job you are being paid millions for. All the best to him. He’ll be his old self soon enough."
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

  9. #248
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Anyone care to defend JV for letting him make Mozgov get whatever he wanted last night? anyone? everyones just going to let that slide like it never happened?

    *** Terrible JV is RAW he'll get better no doubt but people hes a project, Nets it was Blatche ok fair enough... but MOZGOV? NBA's favorite Poster boy? went Hakeem on JV ridiculous.
    One more point I'll make here to defend Amir, JV and Hansbrough.

    Our perimeter defenders do not do a good job of directing traffic. Ideally, you want your perimeter people to keep their check in front of them but that's really hard to do against NBA players, so, you want to direct them to certain spots on the floor, usually to the baseline. This allows your bigs to know where to rotate, help and, just as importantly, where their help is going to come from. Too often with the Raps, opposing guards get middle penetration (a huge no-no) primarily because our perimeter guys are too casual and the bigs have no idea where the ball handler is going, so they can only retreat to the middle. This then blows apart the defensive rotations and leaves guys wide open all over as everyone scrambles to contain the penetration.

    I have also noticed, though someone with a more trained eye may dispute this, that the Raps' coverage of pick and rolls seems to be completely random. Obviously, you don't want to be predictable but most teams have a general strategy they use. The Raps don't seem to have that.

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  11. #249
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I have also noticed, though someone with a more trained eye may dispute this, that the Raps' coverage of pick and rolls seems to be completely random. Obviously, you don't want to be predictable but most teams have a general strategy they use. The Raps don't seem to have that.
    Of course they do. The Raps make sure to go under on shooters, and go over on brick-layers :|

    Oh, and the occasional double-team on the man without the ball.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #250
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    The scary thing of this game is that Val may be learning to play hero ball...which is massively detrimental to the development of the team in the future and Val specifically. We need to teach our players to be unselfish in order to BE an unselfish team
    It could be the case, but I'm sure that his semi-annual stint with the Lithuanian national team will be enough to purge that from his system.

  13. #251
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    JV played 36 or 38 (have to double check) minutes Mozgov 31 JV was on the floor for literally most of the time Movgov played. He didnt do anything Mozgov bodied him and outplayed him. JV has terrible nights if guys less skilled than him can just out muscle him.

    @ slaw you're right about the Raps never being able to contain on the perimeter but still its not like Mozgov has a offensive game. JV gave up dunks for him easily. Dont bother defending Amir hes been trash all season, someone tell him hes not a shoote and go back to doing high energy garbage work.
    Last edited by Rapstor4Life; Mon Dec 2nd, 2013 at 01:30 PM.

  14. #252
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    JV played 36 or 38 (have to double check) minutes Mozgov 31 JV was on the floor for literally most of the time Movgov played. He didnt do anything Mozgov bodied him and outplayed him. JV has terrible nights if guys less skilled than him can just out muscle him.

    @ slaw you're right about the Raps never being able to contain on the perimeter but still its not like Mozgov has a offensive game. JV gave up dunks for him easily. Dont bother defending Amir hes been trash all season, someone tell him hes not a shoote and go back to doing high energy garbage work.
    You should go double check your statement.

    I did but I could have been wrong.

    A little more than half of mosgovs production came with JV on the bench.

    I do love the JV witch hunts after 4 years of waiting for DD to get his shit together - at least offensively.

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  16. #253
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    its not a witch hunt I love JV hes awesome. Just annoyed with "JV does no wrong" attitude that fans have hes a project he'll be great soon/later but he isn't that good right now its just Raw hustle.

    Though who knows its probably clouded in the fact he plays beside Rudy and Kyle.

  17. #254
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    its not a witch hunt I love JV hes awesome. Just annoyed with "JV does no wrong" attitude that fans have hes a project he'll be great soon/later but he isn't that good right now its just Raw hustle.

    Though who knows its probably clouded in the fact he plays beside Rudy and Kyle.
    For the number of posts lately about how awful JV is, I find the "JV does no wrong attitude" to be fairly non-existent lately.
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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  19. #255
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    For the number of posts lately about how awful JV is, I find the "JV does no wrong attitude" to be fairly non-existent lately.
    I'm not sure anyone can say his shit doesn't stink.

    What he does get though is the, "He is 21, has played about 90 NBA games, plays the most difficult position to find in the league, and is arguably progressing at a rate similar to other quality NBA big men in their respective careers but at a younger age" treatment.

    While this might be in line with the "Bargnani excuse" I think this excuse only lasts for another year.... not nearly 7.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  21. #256
    Raptors Republic All-Star Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ..."He is 21, has played about 90 NBA games, plays the most difficult position to find in the league, and is arguably progressing at a rate similar to other quality NBA big men in their respective careers but at a younger age" treatment....
    Quite frankly, I am impressed with his numbers this year considering the number of touches he gets. I wonder how any other center, his age, in their second year, would be doing if over 50% of the shots the team took were coming from just two starters. The Raps do not make effective use of their centers. And it is hard to get rebounds when such a high % of shots are coming from outside 20 feet. Long shot, long rebound leading to fast break, with JV pounding down the floor trying to catch up, then "C'mon JV, get back under the hoop and body up your man while we look off you."

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