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Thread: Koreen: Should the Raptors move DD?

  1. #81
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    It's interesting that "cheap" and "club-friendly contract" has now become part of the pro-Derozan meme. His rookie contract was cheap and club-friendly. Since he doesn't do much to help the club win games -- look at the Raps' record during his stint in Toronto -- his value is essentially nothing more than a vet minimum or replacement-level contract.
    I'm sorry Brandon, but I have to disagree with you pretty sternly. Derozan brings a lot more than you give him credit for. There isn't a guy here that says he is Dwayne Wade, he isn't, but he's the same age many guys are coming out of college, or plying theier 1,2nd year. He's 24. He has shown nothing but improvement every year. He has improved his shooting, improved his actual IQ, he gets to the line, he improves his fitness every offseason, he is a good team guy, a great franchise guy and he likes playing in Toronto. I am really interested to see who yourself, or anyone else thinks is an upgrade taking ALL things into consideration. He is one of 9 players ( i think you need to be 9 deep) they have to use to build a really good team moving forward over the nest 3-5 years. You already have him, and he is getting better, while ALREADY being a very good SG.

    His contract is mentioned, rightly so, because you are getting WAY more than his actual value on it, so its a huge plus, not just a nice consideration.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry Brandon, but I have to disagree with you pretty sternly. Derozan brings a lot more than you give him credit for. There isn't a guy here that says he is Dwayne Wade, he isn't, but he's the same age many guys are coming out of college, or plying theier 1,2nd year. He's 24. He has shown nothing but improvement every year. He has improved his shooting, improved his actual IQ, he gets to the line, he improves his fitness every offseason, he is a good team guy, a great franchise guy and he likes playing in Toronto. I am really interested to see who yourself, or anyone else thinks is an upgrade taking ALL things into consideration. He is one of 9 players ( i think you need to be 9 deep) they have to use to build a really good team moving forward over the nest 3-5 years. You already have him, and he is getting better, while ALREADY being a very good SG.

    His contract is mentioned, rightly so, because you are getting WAY more than his actual value on it, so its a huge plus, not just a nice consideration.
    Opinions and facts are always going to be contested around here I guess.

    Which is which is rarely known.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry Brandon, but I have to disagree with you pretty sternly. Derozan brings a lot more than you give him credit for. There isn't a guy here that says he is Dwayne Wade, he isn't, but he's the same age many guys are coming out of college, or plying theier 1,2nd year. He's 24. He has shown nothing but improvement every year. He has improved his shooting, improved his actual IQ, he gets to the line, he improves his fitness every offseason, he is a good team guy, a great franchise guy and he likes playing in Toronto. I am really interested to see who yourself, or anyone else thinks is an upgrade taking ALL things into consideration. He is one of 9 players ( i think you need to be 9 deep) they have to use to build a really good team moving forward over the nest 3-5 years. You already have him, and he is getting better, while ALREADY being a very good SG.

    His contract is mentioned, rightly so, because you are getting WAY more than his actual value on it, so its a huge plus, not just a nice consideration.
    Don't forget his durability. Most discount this, but it is important to me that high priced players actually BE on the court.

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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Derozan is a replacement player.
    I now I see why I won't be bothering to discuss basketball with you anymore, you simply haven't a clue what you're talking about.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Opinions and facts are always going to be contested around here I guess.

    Which is which is rarely known.
    Ya, but this fellow isn't really being realistic, in fact, his comments are borderlining on foolish it seems. He paints DD as some run of the mill bench rider.... he ignors a huge body of positive work and then ignores the true financial impact of his average salary over the next 6 years. Wow. Look at the list that guy posted, notice that not only is he 62nd now, his is one of the only contracts locked in at the number. But hey, stuff like that doesn't matter.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    My crystal ball says different assuming they don't make poor choices and piss away cap space.
    It's better for the mental health to not be "assuming everything goes well", but more importantly better for the team that we have a GM that looks at thing differently.

    Like most posts here, I've got nothing more than what I've already said before about DeMar, so won't jump on that merry-go-round, other than to flatly state that I think it's absurd to be talking about dumping DeMar for nothing but fantasies. On the other hand, if Brandon can tell us how we can get the 3 LeBrons he prefers, count me in!

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  8. #87
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Matt, if they really tank it will probably be at least 5 years. They'll still probably be no further along in 5 years than they are now.
    This is crazy talk. This team is just a couple wins away from being WORST IN THE LEAGUE. They'd have to have a horrible, horrible next 5 years to still be this bad regardless of the path taken.

    They're 3 wins ahead of the (arguably) underachieving Bucks and Knicks. They're only 2 wins ahead of the historically mismanaged Sacramento Kings and the trying-as-hard-as-we-can-to-tank Utah Jazz. Let that sink in.

    If the Raps are this bad for the next 5 years, they'll have multiple top-5 draft picks on the roster. They'll have to have been horribly mismanaged to have not made any progress at that point.

  9. #88
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Do you think free agents are going to sign with our imaginary cap room to play with Gay or sign to play with what's left over after he bolts and the team has no stud 2014 pick?
    I think if you trade him for a player(Josh Smith) that fits better on this team and make good run and end up winning the Atlantic. I think players would want to sign here.


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  10. #89
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He might be worth $9.5M on offense but he is about minimum contract on D.

    That comes out to a solid $5.4M (50% + 50% divided by 2).
    This is why people think your a Derozan hater....lol Don't worry i know your just fooling around.

  11. #90
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    No, it's not crazy talk, it's based on historical fact. According to this study;

    "Teams that win 25 games or less have only about a 10% chance to join the list of contenders five years after their terrible season. Which means that 90% of teams that win 25 games or less won’t make it to 54 wins after five years."
    I'm not a fan of some of those WoW studies.

    I like that they pointed out that "mediocre teams" (34-49 wins) are "twice as likely" (20%) to hit 54 wins after five years. No kidding. If you include teams with 49 wins, you'll get a few more who manage to win 5 more games within five years.

    In some ways the numbers are so random and waaaaaay too out of context. Why is study group 1 "25 wins or less" while study group 2 is "34-49 wins" and the bar they're trying to attain is 54 wins? Seems like an awful lot of massaging the math to make sure you get a nice and dramatic 10% vs. 20% contrast in "success" rates.

    There are so many weighty variables going on here for the Raps that I'd rather talk about the specifics of Toronto's situation than put much stock in an overly ambitious "study" like that one. Bad stats.
    Last edited by S.R.; Tue Dec 3rd, 2013 at 05:17 PM.

  12. #91
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    This is why people think your a Derozan hater....lol Don't worry i know your just fooling around.
    Why would anyone "hate" on a basketball player :s that argument is pretty silly... Demar is a good baller but the raps kinda stagnant with the teams he was involved in... Everything around Demar has left for better or worse(Jose, bargs, Ed, BC) but the results are still the same... So what's wrong with the "idea" of may be having a bit of a change of scenery here... It really doesn't look like we are progressing forward aniways......


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  14. #92
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    Why would anyone "hate" on a basketball player :s that argument is pretty silly... Demar is a good baller but the raps kinda stagnant with the teams he was involved in... Everything around Demar has left for better or worse(Jose, bargs, Ed, BC) but the results are still the same... So what's wrong with the "idea" of may be having a bit of a change of scenery here... It really doesn't look like we are progressing forward aniways......


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    He was only talking about that post in particular, which was a little tongue in cheek

  15. #93
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    We need a *sarcasm* font.

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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    He was only talking about that post in particular, which was a little tongue in cheek
    -_- special1 has beeeeeen calling ppl haters who are not as high on Demar as he is, in case you haven't seen him do that to ppl here ***


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