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Koreen: Should the Raptors move DD?

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  • #31
    Craig wrote: View Post
    dude i hear ya, but were talking about trading a neophyte star SG guy, for a CHANCE at neophyte star SG type. Do you see the flaw there?

    You have to keep guys like that.
    *neophyte star SG guy for the last two weeks

    I'm not saying it's a fist pump move and Ujiri should be pounding the phone lines until he gets a deal done for DeRozan. I'm simply trying to look at the Raptors roster objectively and figure out who would fetch something decent in return. It's a very short list but DD is on it. I consider it more as a calculated risk than a flawed line of thinking. You're turning an established player into the 'potential' of a good player or two down the line, so of course the potential to get burned is there. But if the Raps goal is to get into the top five of the 2014 draft with their own pick and pick up some other picks/prospects along the way then I think it's worth talking about.... Who else do you move and accomplish that if not him?

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    • #32
      Craig wrote: View Post
      Grass is always greener in pro sports Matt, don't forget that.

      Apprecite what a guy can do, look at his hit, and then assess. You have a guy, that is clearly in top ten of 2 guards in the NBA, who is cheap, young, hard working, and loyal. Why do you cut him when you are looking to go young and rebuild a cheap, young, hard working and loyal new culture?

      There is more to it than a few stats, there is way more. So, like you mentioned, everyone has a price, and if they can get a top three pick for him, great, do it. If not....I dunno man, guys like him are rare in the NBA, as in, I bet most guys here could envision him on San Antonio.
      Who does DD make better?

      DD would thrive in SA because there are a whole bunch of players better than him and he would not be required to carry a franchise. DD, like Bargnani, Calderon, etc. etc., is never going to experience success in Toronto because they are asked to do too much.

      He's been here 5 years.
      Team is nowhere close to competing.
      Get what you can for him when value is high.

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      • #33
        It's going to be a long 4 years -_-.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        @Chr1st1anL

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        • #34
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          Who does DD make better?

          DD would thrive in SA because there are a whole bunch of players better than him and he would not be required to carry a franchise. DD, like Bargnani, Calderon, etc. etc., is never going to experience success in Toronto because they are asked to do too much.

          He's been here 5 years.
          Team is nowhere close to competing.
          Get what you can for him when value is high.
          I don't think it's fair to just lump DD in with Bargnani and Calderon. Calderon is a vet. You know what you're getting with him for better or worse. On the other hand, Derozan's energy and willingness to put the work in to improve is evident. Bargnani's attitude was a cancer for the club, not the case for Derozan.

          Derozan is also signed to a club-friendly contract, unlike Bargnani. Unless the Derozan trade brings back a top-6 pick or a budding young star such as himself, I'm not interested.

          Unless we're thinking that the raps don't make a push for legitimacy until 2017-2018 (note legitimacy, not actual success), I'd like Demar to be a part of this franchise.
          "Bruno?
          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
          He's terrible."

          -Superjudge, 7/23

          Hope you're wrong.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Who does DD make better?

            DD would thrive in SA because there are a whole bunch of players better than him and he would not be required to carry a franchise. DD, like Bargnani, Calderon, etc. etc., is never going to experience success in Toronto because they are asked to do too much.

            He's been here 5 years.
            Team is nowhere close to competing.
            Get what you can for him when value is high.

            I was thinking about the same thing this morning. I can not see SA play DD , 10 million a year for next 4 years when they have a guy like Leonard that they need to pay and he is probably better than DD ...

            DD value is high so is his salary now !!! I still do not understand why BC rushed into signing him like that. Most of the good young teams have players that are better than DD and are up for contract extension and bringing DD will limit their chance of signing their own player.

            The only team that I can think of is GSW with the injury to Iggy ... They now, need a guy from the bench that can score. They had Barns for that but now Barns is starting so they can really use a guy like DD. The question is , can they effort him and what can they give us back ?

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            • #36
              Jamshid wrote: View Post
              I was thinking about the same thing this morning. I can not see SA play DD , 10 million a year for next 4 years when they have a guy like Leonard that they need to pay and he is probably better than DD ...

              DD value is high so is his salary now !!! I still do not understand why BC rushed into signing him like that. Most of the good young teams have players that are better than DD and are up for contract extension and bringing DD will limit their chance of signing their own player.

              The only team that I can think of is GSW with the injury to Iggy ... They now, need a guy from the bench that can score. They had Barns for that but now Barns is starting so they can really use a guy like DD. The question is , can they effort him and what can they give us back ?
              Is Iguodala out for the season? I think it's just a few weeks.

              In either case it would be a tough sale for them. Another perimeter player at 4 years and 38 mil, when they are already spending 30 mil on their perimeter players. And lets not forget that Klay and Barnes would have to be extended in a few years.

              I like how DD fits with the Hawks. They could use a legit secondary perimeter option. They have a few nice young prospects, too.
              Last edited by BobLoblaw; Tue Dec 3, 2013, 12:57 PM.

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              • #37
                stooley wrote: View Post
                I don't think it's fair to just lump DD in with Bargnani and Calderon. Calderon is a vet. You know what you're getting with him for better or worse. On the other hand, Derozan's energy and willingness to put the work in to improve is evident. Bargnani's attitude was a cancer for the club, not the case for Derozan.

                Derozan is also signed to a club-friendly contract, unlike Bargnani. Unless the Derozan trade brings back a top-6 pick or a budding young star such as himself, I'm not interested.

                Unless we're thinking that the raps don't make a push for legitimacy until 2017-2018 (note legitimacy, not actual success), I'd like Demar to be a part of this franchise.

                You missed the point. DD is being asked to do more than his skill set and ability should have him.... like Calderon and Bargnani and others before him.


                The earliest the Raptors have legitimacy in my opinion is 2015-16 and that comes after 2 long seasons of asset collection and assuming everything goes well.

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                • #38
                  BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
                  Is Iguodala out for the season? I think it's just a few weeks.

                  In either case it would be a tough sale for them. Another perimeter player at 4 years and 38 mil, when they are already spending 30 mil on their perimeter players. And lets not forget that Klay and Barnes would have to be extended in a few years.
                  Iggy is likely to be back within the next 10-14 days based on Jackson's comments.

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                  • #39
                    DeRozan is having a good year and he's still getting better. The only reason you'd trade him would be to get picks/prospects back - but those picks/prospects would have to project to be better than DeMar for it to be worthwhile for the Raps. That's asking a lot. What is that in the 2014 draft? Top 5?
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • #40
                      S.R. wrote: View Post
                      DeRozan is having a good year and he's still getting better. The only reason you'd trade him would be to get picks/prospects back - but those picks/prospects would have to project to be better than DeMar for it to be worthwhile for the Raps. That's asking a lot. What is that in the 2014 draft? Top 5?
                      Giannis 'Po is likely to be a Paul George level talent in 4 seasons... or less. I can't believe he is 18 (19 in 2 weeks).

                      It is tough to know what players will become. The reality is Toronto is not competing with DD until the end of his prime.

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                      • #41
                        I'd do G'Po + their 1st rounder and some salary fill-ins ... any day of the week any time of the day. I love DD, but this would be awesome. Plus Milwaukee is in win now mode ... though their record would tell you otherwise.

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                        • #42
                          Build around DD+JV

                          I do not want to see DD leave. He has come so far. The fans love him. The league is noticing him. He's the one guy who is earning the raptors the little respect we have.

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                          • #43
                            mike, prague wrote: View Post
                            I'd do G'Po + their 1st rounder and some salary fill-ins ... any day of the week any time of the day. I love DD, but this would be awesome. Plus Milwaukee is in win now mode ... though their record would tell you otherwise.
                            How about Illyasova + Giannis for Derozan? The salaries match completely. It would be hard to get a draft pick on top of it, but Giannis can be considered the draft pick, and Illyasova is Derozans return.

                            Lowry
                            Giannis/Ross
                            Rudy/Novak
                            Illyasova/Amir
                            Val

                            Throw in a draft pick this year, and NewYorks in 2016.

                            Matt52 (or anyone else for that matter), if in 2016 we have, Novak - Val - Ross - Giannis - Illyasova - 2016 lottery pick - 2014 first rounder on contracts,

                            How much capspace would we have with in the 2016 offseason?
                            I was thinking we would have 20M+ to play with, someone should verify that.

                            If Giannis and Val both flourish, they could bring this team to the upper echelon of clubs. Illyasova, Ross, 2016 Free Agents, and our picks will determine just how good that team can be.
                            The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                            • #44
                              phez wrote: View Post
                              Build around DD+JV

                              I do not want to see DD leave. He has come so far. The fans love him. The league is noticing him. He's the one guy who is earning the raptors the little respect we have.
                              I agree on keeping DD, but I think "build around" is the wrong term to use. Neither of those two are franchise players, but both of them are young and could be excellent #2s or #3s to a true franchise player.

                              I'm not sure why so many people are so insistent on "cashing in" on DeRozan. He's 24, and we have the shooting guard position on lock for the next 4 years (it shouldn't take longer than that to rebuild this team) and possibly more afterwards because he'd only be 28 at that point. Why actively seek to trade him?

                              As much as people want to say his contract is an albatross, it really isn't. He's paid like the 4th or 5th highest paid guy on most contending teams. Not an issue at all.

                              All we need to do with DeRozan is bring in a better player via the draft. He's not suited to be a #1 guy, but could excel as a 2 or 3 behind a legitimate #1.

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                              • #45
                                Brandon wrote:
                                It's interesting that "cheap" and "club-friendly contract" has now become part of the pro-Derozan meme. His rookie contract was cheap and club-friendly. Since he doesn't do much to help the club win games -- look at the Raps' record during his stint in Toronto -- his value is essentially nothing more than a vet minimum or replacement-level contract.
                                This is silly. Derozan is earning less than players like Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, Javale McGee, Gallinari, Tyreke Evans and Tiago Splitter.

                                Not to say he's better than all of those players, but he's certainly in their class.
                                "Bruno?
                                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                                He's terrible."

                                -Superjudge, 7/23

                                Hope you're wrong.

                                Comment

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