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Thread: Koreen: Should the Raptors move DD?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Default Koreen: Should the Raptors move DD?

    http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...m-to-trade-him


    It makes you wonder whether it might be time to move DeRozan. Outside of the struggling Jonas Valanciunas, DeRozan is likely the most valuable commodity on the Raptors roster, and he is playing the best basketball of his career. If Masai Ujiri does decide to tear down this team — and these Raptors are not very good, 0-6 against teams that are .500 or better, with seven of their next 10 games against such squads — should DeRozan really be asked to lead a rebuilding team? Any version of that scenario should have the Raptors focussing on developing Valanciunas and acquiring young assets. With DeRozan and Rudy Gay taking the bulk of Toronto’s shots, the Raptors have done little to help Valanciunas’s growth on the offensive end.

    That is not entirely on DeRozan; the Raptors’ offence is not currently designed to engage Valanciunas, and their rotation features no savvy passers. Still, it is tough to envision a DeRozan-led offence — even in a world where the team can move Gay — that finds Valanciunas in advantageous positions.

    This is as much about DeRozan as it is about the Raptors, though. DeRozan seems burdened by the Raptors’ woes, which says a lot about his desire to win. It is in the Raptors’ interest not to pursue winning in the short term. DeRozan could be the second coming of Jason Terry, a big part of so many losing teams in Atlanta before becoming an essential part of so many great teams in Dallas.

    Ujiri should have some mercy on DeRozan. And it’s a bonus that he can do the right thing for the franchise at the same time.
    Discuss.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Not much to add except that Koreen could be reading the RR forums for his material. DD has a pretty large thread here hasnt he? And these issues have been discussed ad nauseum. LOL.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I'm really more concerned about Gay. Moving DD isn't going to address the stagnation of this offence courtesy Rudy "The Human Molasses" Gay.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    You can sell Demar to other GM's & possibly get a great return. I would definitely consider trading Demar -- but I will demand a high asking price for him for several reasons.

    - Improved 3 point shot & deadly on the corner 3
    - Improved one on one ability & shot off the dribble due to a tighter handle
    - Good post game (in comparison to other SG's)
    - Good character
    - Has survived different Raptor regimes starting from Bosh to Andrea to Rudy & has always scored well regardless of system
    - Defense is not terrible; can be a system defender
    - Can easily be #3 scoring option on contending teams
    - At $9.5 million, his contract is not overly ambitious
    - Size for his position; can play the 3 spot
    - Potential to improve

    I think the first 2 bullet points should be Masai's selling points since other teams value 3 point makes & also a player's ability to get his shot off when the offense breaks down. Basically, what you're offering is a legitimate 3rd scoring option (2nd on most teams) who has polished his offensive game in pretty much every aspect while leaving room for improvement due to his relatively young age & character.

    Those are valid selling points & I'm sure there is a market for that kind of asset. At the same time, it makes it difficult to let go of a player since the Raptors can use him now and moving forward. It all depends on the direction the Raptors want to take, Demar's stance on our team's direction & the market for a player of his caliber.

    Personally, I'd want to keep Derozan here long-term but I don't imagine him as our #1 or #2 in the future.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    DeMar is the only guy I'm emotionally attached to on this team (i.e. I would be sad to see him go), but if it has to be done in order to blow up correctly, then so be it.
    Writer for RaptorsWatch.com

    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    You can move Demar but you have to get a lot back. Say what you will about him but hes become a great scorer and is a decent defender that would be an upgrade to 90% of teams at the 2 spot. He is also relatively cheap and signed for 3 more seasons at that cheap price. I`m talking multiple first rounders, a decent prospect and nothing bad coming back.
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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I would move DeMar ONLY for something of same value of a player/picks or more, because from what I'm seeing, he still has much room to grow despite the great growth already - three-point shot, defense, ball-handling, IQ.

    Like isaacthompson, he's the one guy on this team that I am emotionally attached with, and I would be very sad to see him go. I personally think that he is an asset not in a trade, but an asset for this franchise.

    I say JV, DeMar, and Ross are all untouchables. If we blow everything up, these are the only three I would hope to stay, everyone else in my mind can be dealt.

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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    I would move DeMar ONLY for something of same value of a player/picks or more, because from what I'm seeing, he still has much room to grow despite the great growth already - three-point shot, defense, ball-handling, IQ.

    Like isaacthompson, he's the one guy on this team that I am emotionally attached with, and I would be very sad to see him go. I personally think that he is an asset not in a trade, but an asset for this franchise.

    I say JV, DeMar, and Ross are all untouchables. If we blow everything up, these are the only three I would hope to stay, everyone else in my mind can be dealt.
    Why is T ross untouchable for you what has he done to garner this tag

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    Quote yukhan1980 wrote: View Post
    Why is T ross untouchable for you what has he done to garner this tag
    The potential. He's shown the ability far more this season then he did in his rookie season, and trust me, I was a "hater" of Ross last season.

    He's a much smarter and more confident player right now, his defense has been outstanding (probably the best part of his game this season), he's hitting the three more consistently, and of course, he's a highlight factory with his athleticism.

    Letting go of Ross is going to be a huge mistake, and could turn into one of the few elite 3-&-D type players in the league - one this Raptors team is in desperate need of.

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    I'd definitely phone around and see what people were offering. I hope Ujiri is in the 'every player is available for the right price' stance at this point. But I'd want a landslide return; I think what hateslosing puts out there pretty-much nails it; something that sets up the prospect base for a few years. If that's not what the market is for him, then keep him (and by market, I mean one desperate team with the right assets, because I'm not interested in what the average GM would pay for him).

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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    The potential. He's shown the ability far more this season then he did in his rookie season, and trust me, I was a "hater" of Ross last season.

    He's a much smarter and more confident player right now, his defense has been outstanding (probably the best part of his game this season), he's hitting the three more consistently, and of course, he's a highlight factory with his athleticism.

    Letting go of Ross is going to be a huge mistake, and could turn into one of the few elite 3-&-D type players in the league - one this Raptors team is in desperate need of.
    I agree with this. Ross projects to be more of a Kawhi Leonard & Jimmy Butler type rather than a top 3 option & that is fine with me. You need to start assembling your roster for the future & he fits that role. His defense has been impressive & has become our lockdown defender, if you will. For that reason alone & the fact that he is on a rookie contract -- making less than your veteran role players, the Raptors should value him.

    I doubt he will ever be the potent scorer that Demar is, but his defense is leaps & bounds better than Demar's. Pair him up with another 3 & D small forward, an inside presence (JV) & a good young point guard .... & surround them with good role players & veterans & a good coach .... BAM -- your 2015-2016 Raptors.
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    I think that question is impossible to answer without actually seeing the offers on the table. Not just for DeMar, but for other pieces too. In principle, sure, I think trades have to be made. If it's DeMar, or Gay, or Lowry, Amir, some combination of them.. I can't say.

    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    would be an upgrade to 90% of teams at the 2 spot.
    That's a bit of an overstatement.

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    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate DeRozan. I certainly don't like aspects of his game but that does not mean I hate the guy.

    I do think Koreen is on to something here for both DeRozan's benefit and the franchise.

    The main issue for me is what happens to DD if he is the #1 option without the presence of Rudy on perimeter? In past years it was awful. Has he turned a corner? Is he putting up these numbers vs the opponents best perimeter defender or is that player guarding Rudy?

    For the Raptors it is a huge gamble to keep him based on thinking the above has changed.... especially if he has value around the league.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate DeRozan. I certainly don't like aspects of his game but that does not mean I hate the guy.

    I do think Koreen is on to something here for both DeRozan's benefit and the franchise.

    The main issue for me is what happens to DD if he is the #1 option without the presence of Rudy on perimeter? In past years it was awful. Has he turned a corner? Is he putting up these numbers vs the opponents best perimeter defender or is that player guarding Rudy?

    For the Raptors it is a huge gamble to keep him based on thinking the above has changed.... especially if he has value around the league.
    I've wondered the same. Nonetheless, I would still want Gay to be traded first, at the least, just to see what Derozan would be like as the #1. I don't think he is a legit #1, but spending some time in that role may be good for his development, but again, it could be bad. I'd like to see Derozan stay, but I am not attached to him and if he has to go then so be it. Ultimately, like was said in the article, it may be best for both him and the franchise if he was traded, but especially for him in my mind.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    You gotta move Demar, it's the whole basis of Sell High. You trade him when he's playing well, of course it's going to suck a little but if he was playing at a level where we wanted him to get traded (ex. Rudy Gay) that would also mean he's playing at a level where no one would want to trade for him.

    Trading is a two-way street and right now you could probably convince another team to give you a pretty good return (young player plus mid-first, or just a lottery first) for him.

    Someone else pointed out that if Demar is gone Rudy's number will likely go up as well since he becomes the only scorer on the team, that way it makes it easier to trade Rudy as well later.

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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I've wondered the same. Nonetheless, I would still want Gay to be traded first, at the least, just to see what Derozan would be like as the #1. I don't think he is a legit #1, but spending some time in that role may be good for his development, but again, it could be bad. I'd like to see Derozan stay, but I am not attached to him and if he has to go then so be it. Ultimately, like was said in the article, it may be best for both him and the franchise if he was traded, but especially for him in my mind.
    If he did more than score, I'd be all for seeing what he does - maybe he did turn the corner offensively and he is capable of being a #1 without an equal threat next to him.

    However because he does little else other than score consistently, I think it is too great of a risk.... but that is just my opinion.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    I would trade DD in a heartbeat for G 'Po:

    “He’s 6-9 and 18 years old and, where his skill level is right now, you just don’t see that much,” Drew said. “He does some intriguing things when he’s out on the floor. We just have to continue to develop him. We have to continue to allow him to grow.”

    Not only is Antetokounmpo’s game growing, so is his body. When the Bucks drafted him in June, he was 6-9. Now, just more than five months later, he has added more than an inch to his lanky frame.

    “I am now 6-10 and one quarter,” Antetokounmpo said smiling.

    He then paused before adding, “I still have 3½ years to grow.”

    Indeed, doctors have informed Antetokounmpo and Bucks officials that the former’s growth plate is still open. In all likelihood, he’ll become a 7-footer.


    For now, Antetokounmpo is content with his role with the Bucks. He believes he’s on track to fulfilling the Bucks’ high expectations, saying he’s already become acclimated to the fast and furious lifestyle of the NBA on and off the court.

    Asked if he was intimidated playing in the NBA against more mature and more established players, Antetokounmpo said, “Intimidated? No. I was at the beginning (of the season) scared but not anymore. I am more comfortable and more aggressive.”

    Antetokounmpo wore jersey No. 11 while playing in Greece but now dons 34. The reason?

    “I picked 34 because my mother was born in 1963 and my father was born in 1964,” Antetokounmpo said. “I picked that number because of them.”

    http://journaltimes.com/sports/baske...a4bcf887a.html
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    I would move DeMar ONLY for something of same value of a player/picks or more, because from what I'm seeing, he still has much room to grow despite the great growth already - three-point shot, defense, ball-handling, IQ.

    Like isaacthompson, he's the one guy on this team that I am emotionally attached with, and I would be very sad to see him go. I personally think that he is an asset not in a trade, but an asset for this
    I say JV, DeMar, and Ross are all untouchables. If we blow everything up, these are the only three I would hope to stay, everyone else in my mind can be dealt.
    I agree with your sediments but finding a suitor for DD will be easier than finding one for Gay. BC really did screw us. I would love to have Ed Davis back.

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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    You gotta move Demar, it's the whole basis of Sell High. You trade him when he's playing well, of course it's going to suck a little but if he was playing at a level where we wanted him to get traded (ex. Rudy Gay) that would also mean he's playing at a level where no one would want to trade for him.

    Trading is a two-way street and right now you could probably convince another team to give you a pretty good return (young player plus mid-first, or just a lottery first) for him.

    Someone else pointed out that if Demar is gone Rudy's number will likely go up as well since he becomes the only scorer on the team, that way it makes it easier to trade Rudy as well later.
    Good point.

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