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Thread: Same, Better or Worse?

  1. #1
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Default Same, Better or Worse?

    If we started the season again with the lineups below, would we be better, the same or worse? If so why?



    Calderon - Ross - DeRozan - Davis - Valanciunas




    Lowry - DeRozan - Gay - Johnson - Valanciunas

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Starter consmap's Avatar
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    Looking at the first lineup makes me want to cry.
    I think in terms of our record we would be about the same, maybe a little bit worse. There isn't enough talent there to win against a lot of the big teams but with Calderon running the point the ball movement could help the team stay close in a few games. Our defense could potentially be bad since JV and Ed aren't exactly the best interior defenders (good, but not the best). But we'd definitely see way more team ball and our young players would be in a much better position to develop and succeed. Tanking could also be possible with that lineup, and it wouldn't be painful to watch.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    The same or worse.

    People really need to get over Ed Davis. He's not that good. Why would he be starting if the Gay trade didn't happen when Amir and Tyler are both much better? And Lowry has actually been pretty decent this year, I don't know why everybody hates him so bad. I'll take his 13 and 7 and waay better defense over Calderon, thanks.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    I like Lowry as well but I definitely miss the PG "controversy" that we had compared to our options this year. I really thing Raptors would be in a much better place going forward if it weren't for the Gay trade.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Yeah, can't see much of a difference there. Both teams are bottom feeders in the weak Eastern Conference.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  8. #6
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I was leaning towards same, but the main difference being upside and giving guys like Ross, Davis, and JV more opportunity to grow.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Also I put Davis as a starter because I felt like he was tracking that way...you could easily replace him with Johnson and I think this debate still holds up.

  10. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    We'd be worse. Calderon has dropped off quite a bit since the trade and Davis is not as good as Johnson. The team we are fielding this year is actually a pretty big improvement from the last few years from a talent perspective. Their problems have mostly been system related so far.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    I use to think Lowry and Gay would make a playoff team if they were together. Boy was I wrong

  12. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    I use to think Lowry and Gay would make a playoff team if they were together. Boy was I wrong
    Technically, you may be right. We could become the first and only 35 win 4th seed in history! lol...............

  13. #11
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Toronto would be worse without having Gay & Lowry in the lineup.

    Amir/Davis are and always have been a wash in my books. I would have preferred Amir to have been the one traded (purely for financial reasons), but I really don't think it would have made a huge difference which of them was kept as the starting PF. They're the #4/5 option on offense and asked to do the banging/rebounding (the only additional benefit of keeping Davis would have been the elimination of the ridiculous 'summer 3' and having a more traditional PF in the lineup).

    For as bad as Gay has been playing this year, he definitely attracts defensive attention, opening up the court for other players; DeRozan has been the primary beneficiary. Gay still defends the best opposition wing (most of the time) and contributes solid rebounding. I don't think DeRozan would have developed as well as he has, had he had both the pressure and defensive attention, from being the #1 guy on offense.

    Lowry has had some great games, despite not being the long-term answer for this team. I still think a Gay/Lowry tandem is vastly superior to Calderon/Ross tandem, at least this season.

    A lineup with Calderon, Ross and DeRozan would be a huge defensive downgrade from a Lowry, DeRozan and Gay lineup. Combine that with a still-learning defensive anchor (Valanciunas), and that defense would be swiss cheese compared to the current defense.

  14. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about that...say the leader of the Atlantic division is a 30-52 team, and the team in 9th place is any number of wins better than that. Does the NBA consider saying "screw you Atlantic, you suck, you're out of the playoffs"

    I sure hope so...it would be a disgrace to playoff basketball and undeserving. BTW I think it should just be conference versus conference...none of this division BS..

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    Raptors Republic All-Star iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    We'd be worse. Calderon has dropped off quite a bit since the trade and Davis is not as good as Johnson. The team we are fielding this year is actually a pretty big improvement from the last few years from a talent perspective. Their problems have mostly been system related so far.
    how has calderon dropped off at all?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    how has calderon dropped off at all?
    His assit numbers are down quite a bit, he used to be good for 9-10 per 36 and he's at 5.7 this year. His scoring hasn't dropped off much though.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic Starter consmap's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    His assit numbers are down quite a bit, he used to be good for 9-10 per 36 and he's at 5.7 this year. His scoring hasn't dropped off much though.
    I think that's because most of the ball handling duties go to Monta Ellis in Dallas, Jose doesn't orchestrate the offense as much as he did in Toronto anymore.
    Last edited by consmap; Mon Dec 2nd, 2013 at 07:47 PM.

  18. #16
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    Almost same but the 2nd cost you about 15 million more and in a league with salary cap, that is a big number.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    The way Lawson and Robinson got into the paint as easily as they did, can you imagine if it was Jose standing in their way instead of Lowry?

  20. #18
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    First group would have the Raptors 2013 lottery pick in there too somewhere, and it probably would have been higher than #12 if it weren't for BC's 'accelerated rebuild'.

  21. #19
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    First group would have the Raptors 2013 lottery pick in there too somewhere, and it probably would have been higher than #12 if it weren't for BC's 'accelerated rebuild'.
    Thissss... the single reason why we are where we are now!
    such an idiotic concept.. BULLSHIT!

  22. #20
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I could see Fields starting at SF if we had never acquired Gay.

    But I'm with those that have said that despite his reputation, Lowry has played well enough to justify his starting.

    Sooo I'm going to say we'd be Worse off now. But as has been noted, likely further in the rebuild process ... though its still yet to be acknowledged by management that we are in fact rebuilding.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Dec 2nd, 2013 at 11:29 PM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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