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Thread: Potential trade destinations for Lowry: Dec.12 - NY a match?

  1. #1261
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Explain? He's 27 and having the best year of his career. I'd say he's exactly in his prime. Don't think he'll get better in an impact sense. *I realize you could mean he could play this way for several more years, but he could also get a sidetracking injury within a couple of years, in which case you've lost the chance to take advantage of his prime value.

    Should we look to trade him?

    I don't know. I think it was @slaw who posted in another thread....It's very risky to let a guy playing so well walk for nothing. If they can agree to an extension or a gentleman's agreement on a re-signing in the offseason (as he said, it's only illegal if they get caught), that's the ideal scenario for keeping him. Otherwise, you're looking at a guy hitting his prime going into unrestricted free agency, and we know there are teams (Lakers?) who could throw a stupid amount of money at him that Masai might never want to match. It's a really tough call. But management has to do what's best for the team long-term, and losing Lowry for nothing is the worst-case all around.
    you mean like what the cavs had with boozer?
    @jerboat

  2. #1262
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Anyways, i've said it before and i'll say it again. I'd still trade him in a heartbeat. I know a lot of people are having a good time with this winning thing, so am i, but i just have a really bad feeling about lowry walking. He's given NO indication of wanting to be apart of the team. He's not even waffling about "wanting to be on the team but we'll see what happens..." like Bosh did when everyone in toronto not named Colangelo knew he was going to walk. Lowry certainly hasn't quit the way Bosh or Vince did when they knew there time was about to end, but i think that's how he's wired. Which is a good thing! But at the same time, when he gives very roundabout answers to if he'd like to resign here it's a big red flag to me. A gigantic, waving red flag.

    Maybe he's said something to MU personally, though? It doesn't seem like MU to take a guy with increasing value off the trade block, but then again since when do we really know what MU's up to?

    Make no mistake, if he wants to stay here i'm all for it. I just don't have any proof that he does. I've got this big blinking red light in the back of my head that says "CONTRACT YEAR" whenever i think of it and it makes me incredibly wary.

    And don't give me that "winning cures all!" garbage.
    @jerboat

  3. #1263
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    you mean like what the cavs had with boozer?
    Not exactly. They could've kept Boozer for another year at a bargain price (less than $1 million). They had a handshake agreement to release him of that year, let him become a RFA (not an UFA)....then Utah made an offer almost double what Cleveland had reportedly offered, and Cleveland chose not to match.

    Obviously it could backfire for Toronto, but they also don't have the option of keeping him cheap, or the option of matching any offers. It's probably less likely Lowry gets offered double what Toronto would offer him, but it is fully possibly a team offers him enough over it that he doesn't want to accept the handshake agreement they had. It's not ideal, but it also creates some good faith, which may also help facilitate a sign and trade as long as Toronto doesn't get all whiny and upset like Cleveland did. I can't really fault Boozer...we're not talking 3 or 4 or even 15 million. Utah offered him 31 million more than Cleveland did. If someone offered you double your previous offer, would you really reject it for the honour of a handshake?

  4. #1264
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Shantz wrote: View Post
    In the past few weeks we have heard everything possible about Lowry. Trade, confident they can resign, extension, options open, still would like a high pick...I absolutely love how Ujiri works.

    Now, this is not to advocate for a Lowry trade, but to merely add another piece to gauge the possible market for him. There are currently 10 teams that have injured starting PGs.

    Boston – Rondo
    Brooklyn – Deron
    Chicago – Rose
    Houston – Beverley
    LA Clippers – Paul
    LA Lakers – Nash (then Blake, followed by Farmar)
    Miami - Chalmers
    New Orleans – Holiday
    OKC – Westbrook
    Phoenix – Bledsoe

    Granted, not all of these teams would be interested, or even have the assets available...I just find it fascinating that a third of the league has these issues.

    If things do go south for the Raptors, it seems like Lowry could be one of the most attractive trade chips on the market. Starting caliber PG, on an expiring contract, with RFA status, and only making just over $6mil a year. At this rate even Vasquez could have some value if the Raptors saw fit.
    The market for Kyle is definitely expanding, I agree with that. I'm just worried about the return Raps would get; at the end of the day, he's most likely still just a rental. May be able to squeeze out a first-rounder from some of the teams like OKC, since it'll most likely come later in the round.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  5. #1265
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Woj - Golden State is chasing down a multi-team deal to bolster its guard depth. Kyle Lowry prominently involved.
    @jerboat

  6. #1266
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    jk they traded for crawford and brooks
    @jerboat

  7. #1267
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Yep, officially take GS out of the Lowry sweepstakes.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  8. #1268
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Love how GS is claiming they turned down a Lowry trade because of locker room concerns. More like Toronto turned it down because they weren't offering Barnes and they have literally nothing else to offer. Just look at the Celtics trade return. Joel Anthony and some second round picks. I'd rather keep Lowry than take that garbage.

  9. #1269
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    They did?
    @jerboat

  10. #1270
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    They did?
    Yup. Ric Bucher reported it yesterday - Click here

  11. #1271
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I make up excuses when i can't afford things too
    @jerboat

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    Quote phiLLy wrote: View Post
    One can only dream, that we get 3 2014 First-Rounders for Lowry.

    Though, Phoenix might get a little desperate...S&T?
    I think if we could get three first rounders we should trade KL knowing that he won't resign with us. I really like KL going forward but if someone gets desperate.....MU needs to pounce.

  13. #1273
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Love how GS is claiming they turned down a Lowry trade because of locker room concerns. More like Toronto turned it down because they weren't offering Barnes and they have literally nothing else to offer. Just look at the Celtics trade return. Joel Anthony and some second round picks. I'd rather keep Lowry than take that garbage.
    The source for that story sounds like GS. MU has been great in avoiding media leaks in sharp contrast to BC.

  14. #1274
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    If right now NY called up Ujiri and offered Shumpert, Hardaway Jr. and a 1st round pick, would you want MU to take the deal?

  15. #1275
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    If right now NY called up Ujiri and offered Shumpert, Hardaway Jr. and a 1st round pick, would you want MU to take the deal?
    Depends on what MU thinks the chances of resigning Lowry are. If he doesn't think they're good, you take that without blinking.

  16. #1276
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I don't think Lowry is traded this season. I'm not a GM so this is all 100% opinion based. Look through the league. Who has assets to throw away on a player that may or may not return next season?

    When looking at teams with injured PGs:

    Boston has Rondo back.
    Brooklyn has Williams back.
    Chicago has lost Rose but the Bulls are just $500k below luxury tax and don't have the required contracts to take on Lowry without going in to tax.
    Houston did fine without Beverly and now he is back.
    Clippers - doing fine without Paul, limited assets to make numbers work, no picks to trade.
    Miami - Chalmers is back, no pick to trade, no assets to make numbers work.
    New Orleans are likely to tank like no other team has done since Golden State (injuries have given them no choice).
    OKC - doing fine without Westbrook
    Phoenix are going to have Bledsoe back, tough to make numbers work without 3rd team or more coming from Raptors.

    Then look at playoff bubble teams:
    Charlotte has Walker who will be back soon.
    Detroit has Jennings - would Raps want him? I hope not.
    Cleveland - Irving/Jack
    Washington - Wall
    Memphis - Conley
    Denver - Lawson
    Atlanta - Teague with Mack doing well as backup and Schroder as long term prospect

    Then there are bad/tank teams with no hope outside of ping pong balls:
    Philly
    Boston
    Milwaukee
    Orlando

    Then there are the teams who are at bottom of standings with PG set:
    Utah - Burke
    Sacramento - Thomas

    Then there are teams at the top or firmly in playoffs who are set:
    San Antonio
    Indiana
    Portland
    Dallas
    Golden State



    So who does that leave?

    Minnesota: connection with Adelman, starter who does not play in the 4th quarter.... but no picks and limited assets in trade. What does that do for Toronto?

    New York: Dolan put the kibosh on that. Maybe things change as they sit 10 games under .500 at half way point of season?

    LA Lakers. LA Lakers. LA Lakers. LA Lakers. But not in season.

    They are going to be a prime sign and trade destination for Lowry. Why?
    1) they are looking to get back to winning next year. You think Kobe wants to play out last 2 years without a chance to win?
    2) Perfect trade mate in Toronto with Nash (not because of passport but because of $9.7M contract i.e. about what Lowry would likely make). Lakers with Lowry around $9M and Kobe at $23M have about $30M for free agency. Deng, big offer to Monroe.... just throwing out possibilities.
    3) What player wouldn't want to play for Lakers? What PG wouldn't want to play for D'Antoni?
    4) Lakers pick. They are likely to get high draft pick this season. High draft picks take up cap space and don't always contribute to winning immediately. Lakers will be in win now mode. So S&T Lowry for Nash with Lakers pick going to Raptors and some 2nd round picks going to LA (low cap hold, lots of flexibility in signing).
    5) Lakers rumoured to have lots of interest a couple of years ago when Gasol to Houston was speculated. At that time supposedly Houston refused to include Lowry in deal which was hold up. All rumours and hearsay of course.


    I'm still all for building through higher end of draft. I just think it is going to be done in '13-14 on the road less traveled. '14-15 will likely be more of a traditional route and I think the '15-16 season is when the Raptors are looking to be real threats with an eye on '16 free agency.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  18. #1277
    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't think Lowry is traded this season. I'm not a GM so this is all 100% opinion based. Look through the league. Who has assets to throw away on a player that may or may not return next season?

    When looking at teams with injured PGs:

    Boston has Rondo back.
    Brooklyn has Williams back.
    Chicago has lost Rose but the Bulls are just $500k below luxury tax and don't have the required contracts to take on Lowry without going in to tax.
    Houston did fine without Beverly and now he is back.
    Clippers - doing fine without Paul, limited assets to make numbers work, no picks to trade.
    Miami - Chalmers is back, no pick to trade, no assets to make numbers work.
    New Orleans are likely to tank like no other team has done since Golden State (injuries have given them no choice).
    OKC - doing fine without Westbrook
    Phoenix are going to have Bledsoe back, tough to make numbers work without 3rd team or more coming from Raptors.

    Then look at playoff bubble teams:
    Charlotte has Walker who will be back soon.
    Detroit has Jennings - would Raps want him? I hope not.
    Cleveland - Irving/Jack
    Washington - Wall
    Memphis - Conley
    Denver - Lawson
    Atlanta - Teague with Mack doing well as backup and Schroder as long term prospect

    Then there are bad/tank teams with no hope outside of ping pong balls:
    Philly
    Boston
    Milwaukee
    Orlando

    Then there are the teams who are at bottom of standings with PG set:
    Utah - Burke
    Sacramento - Thomas

    Then there are teams at the top or firmly in playoffs who are set:
    San Antonio
    Indiana
    Portland
    Dallas
    Golden State



    So who does that leave?

    Minnesota: connection with Adelman, starter who does not play in the 4th quarter.... but no picks and limited assets in trade. What does that do for Toronto?

    New York: Dolan put the kibosh on that. Maybe things change as they sit 10 games under .500 at half way point of season?

    LA Lakers. LA Lakers. LA Lakers. LA Lakers. But not in season.

    They are going to be a prime sign and trade destination for Lowry. Why?
    1) they are looking to get back to winning next year. You think Kobe wants to play out last 2 years without a chance to win?
    2) Perfect trade mate in Toronto with Nash (not because of passport but because of $9.7M contract i.e. about what Lowry would likely make). Lakers with Lowry around $9M and Kobe at $23M have about $30M for free agency. Deng, big offer to Monroe.... just throwing out possibilities.
    3) What player wouldn't want to play for Lakers? What PG wouldn't want to play for D'Antoni?
    4) Lakers pick. They are likely to get high draft pick this season. High draft picks take up cap space and don't always contribute to winning immediately. Lakers will be in win now mode. So S&T Lowry for Nash with Lakers pick going to Raptors and some 2nd round picks going to LA (low cap hold, lots of flexibility in signing).
    5) Lakers rumoured to have lots of interest a couple of years ago when Gasol to Houston was speculated. At that time supposedly Houston refused to include Lowry in deal which was hold up. All rumours and hearsay of course.


    I'm still all for building through higher end of draft. I just think it is going to be done in '13-14 on the road less traveled. '14-15 will likely be more of a traditional route and I think the '15-16 season is when the Raptors are looking to be real threats with an eye on '16 free agency.
    Welcome back Matt! Def good to see u posting again.

    I agree there doesn't seem to be much of a market for lowry among other teams anymore. Though i did read somewhere recently that Udrih is demanding a trade out of NY, might not have been a reliable source though, not sure. That could open up some lowry discussions, but I cant see MU taking on JR Smith which is who Dolan will be looking to package Udrih with. Looks like they will probably keep both players we originally wanted in the first place also. So that will probably lead nowhere again if talks ever did resurface.

  19. #1278
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    matt!
    @jerboat

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  21. #1279
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    If right now NY called up Ujiri and offered Shumpert, Hardaway Jr. and a 1st round pick, would you want MU to take the deal?
    I say yes to that deal and then start looking for a third trade partner to send Shump out in exchange for something we need more. Probably Houston: Shump + Novak for Lin - Lin wants a trade, they want to get rid of his contract, and they need a good defending wing and Shump is it. Novak makes the money work and he's another three-shooter for the team that loves three-shooting more than anything. If Houston wants THJ as well, I'd consider it if they throw in a first-rounder.

  22. #1280
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I think at this point you don't look at it like which team needs a starting point guard, you look at it like what team wants to upgrade the position.

    Question is just as hard to answer though.
    @jerboat

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