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  • #61
    Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    The very basis of capitalism is freedom, thereby making it inherent.
    please, expand.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    • #62
      Joey, you can take anyone out of context and discredit them. The guy is hardcore against vacines and links the vacine blitz to the ruling class. He verifies this stance with documents(memos, scientific papers, etc.) and field experts.

      He also has given examples of multiple people in power of being child predators. Again, documents and expert interviews.

      While I do not know exactly what you pulled that stuff from because you gave no context, I've read enough of his message to know the above.

      As for the Boston bombings, I started this by saying I don't agree with everything he says. I do agree with truthful, factual information though. From my experience its very evident when he is providing facts and when he is speculating because he flat out tells you and tells you where to find the info for yourself. Presentation of facts and speculation based on fact are common place everywhere in society. It happens all the time on mainstream television. I mean the Iraq war was fueled based on mdia speculation and sensationalism. When we got to the truth years later we found out that the proof for war was bogus but the million some odd people were already dead...

      I trust Alex Jones no more than anyone else, but he does at times make go points and typically his detractors attempt to discredit him for how he acts, and by taking him out of context rather than facing off by challenging the substance within the message. The medium is irrelevant, it's the facts that matter.

      Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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      • #63
        Awesome comments, Joey, Enlightenment and White Men Can't Jump!

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        • #64
          Quirk wrote: View Post
          Awesome comments, Joey, Enlightenment and White Men Can't Jump!
          I just feel like a lot of comments in this thread totally lack in terms of foundational knowledge of poli sci, sociology, anthropology (in terms of social evolution), philosophy....anyway.

          I mean, you have people comparing the US to China and shit like that. Comparing both, obviously, since roughly around US independence. But that China was in no way representative of modern China, or rather since the Maoist victory and formation of the PRC. It's like comparing the experiences of an old man to that of a teenager.

          Where was the US roughly half a century in its development? Still not very far along economically (they really didn't break out til the 20th century as the global hegemonic power). Slaughtering indigenous people by the millions (far worse than anything that's happened in China since they became the PRC). Enslaving Africans.....Basically, they accomplished far less in that span, both economically and socially, than China. Now, they did have democracy, and much better freedoms for those who held democratic rights...but not everyone had such rights until well into the 20th century.
          Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Dec 11, 2013, 02:35 PM.

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          • #65
            Apollo wrote: View Post
            Joey, you can take anyone out of context and discredit them. The guy is hardcore against vacines and links the vacine blitz to the ruling class. He verifies this stance with documents(memos, scientific papers, etc.) and field experts.

            He also has given examples of multiple people in power of being child predators. Again, documents and expert interviews.

            While I do not know exactly what you pulled that stuff from because you gave no context, I've read enough of his message to know the above.

            As for the Boston bombings, I started this by saying I don't agree with everything he says. I do agree with truthful, factual information though. From my experience its very evident when he is providing facts and when he is speculating because he flat out tells you and tells you where to find the info for yourself. Presentation of facts and speculation based on fact are common place everywhere in society. It happens all the time on mainstream television. I mean the Iraq war was fueled based on mdia speculation and sensationalism. When we got to the truth years later we found out that the proof for war was bogus but the million some odd people were already dead...

            Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
            You can point to the low hanging fruit of Iraq. But you are referring to one form of Media as lies and bias, yet it seems to me you are giving Alex Jones way to much credibility than he deserves.

            The Tornado conspiracy theory is almost on the same line as boob-quake in terms of ridiculousness. I want to know which Experts were consulted on that one.

            Its clear to me that Alex is actually another version of the media that you shoot down. He is fishing for clicks, and is compromising truth and journalistic decency in order to do so.
            The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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            • #66
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              No they don't. That's why we had a great depression and decades of protest in Western Nations (roughly a century? is it even really close to done or has the scale just diminished?). Capitalism immediately creates a situation of high potential for exploiter-exploitee dynamics, which inherently makes it extremely difficult to have any balanced level of freedoms. Without social programs to offset such dynamics, we'd be living in a very very different world. So you can thank communists for that.
              What freedoms are you referring to? And what exactly do you mean by 'balanced level of freedoms'?

              Wealth redistribution does not create a higher standard of living, maybe in the short term it does for some but what happens when people one the drive to produce because they can't reap the benefits of their hard work, sacrifice and risk? What encourages them to innovate and create new products to or services that people want? If not for capitalism we wouldn't have the many things we take for granted today. We wouldn't even be having this discussion on this forum because there would be no reason to create the means to do it. Everything we take for granted today started with a person coming up with an idea creating a product and selling it for yes the evil word PROFIT. In doing so he or she improved the life of the purchaser of that product. It is the freedom of people and business to exchange goods servics and money that drives innovation and promotes personal and social growth. That is what makes capitalism great. I admit it's not perfect but it is the best system ever created by man
              Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
              Because its 2015

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              • #67
                Oh oh.

                I think Apollo and and Uncle_Si might have a point:



                Beware the Master Race Frankenstein Radio Controls! Distribute Widely!



                @whitemen, yeah, I try my best to only discuss political theory with those that actually have some skin in the game, in terms of study, and not some tedious blowhard at the Christmas party. The three of you have done really well!

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                • #68
                  Come on Joey, most stories come from one source, like the associated press and is then picked up (repeated) by all the outlets. You're getting no variety and no one is challenging and investigating like journalists used to do. Typically what is fact is the words from one man's mouth. Why is that?

                  You never get the full story unless you go to the people investigating the stories, those asking questions. If you are someone who asks questions in today's society or challenging the collective message you are attacked but its rarely an attack of the facts. Typically its an attack on the character of the person asking the questions. Oh, he's just a nut or oh, he's just out for attention, etc. We as a society tend to fly over the message and attack the messenger any time the message flies contrary to the commonly held narrative. This method has been used since the beginning of time. At least now we no long burn someone alive for their observations which fly contrary to the prepared message.

                  Those who investigate are typically independent in this age. There you have my answer. Am I crazy or out for attention? Thats your decision.



                  Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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                  • #69
                    Apollo wrote: View Post
                    Come on Joey, most stories come from one source, like the associated press and is then picked up (repeated) by all the outlets. You're getting no variety and no one is challenging and investigating like journalists used to do. Typically what is fact is the words from one man's mouth. Why is that?

                    You never get the full story unless you go to the people investigating the stories, those asking questions. If you are someone who asks questions in today's society or challenging the collective message you are attacked but its rarely an attack of the facts. Typically its an attack on the character of the person asking the questions. Oh, he's just a nut or oh, he's just out for attention, etc. We as a society tend to fly over the message and attack the messenger any time the message flies contrary to the commonly held narrative. This method has been used since the beginning of time. At least now we no long burn someone alive for their observations which fly contrary to the prepared message.

                    Those who investigate are typically independent in this age. There you have my answer. Am I crazy or out for attention? Thats your decision.
                    No one is saying you're crazy, or out for attention. Just that Alex Jones is, and that you may have been caught in his web of misinformation.

                    Or perhaps he is the only one telling the truth and the rest of us are all sheep. Anything is possible.

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                    • #70
                      Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
                      What freedoms are you referring to? And what exactly do you mean by 'balanced level of freedoms'?

                      Wealth redistribution does not create a higher standard of living, maybe in the short term it does for some but what happens when people one the drive to produce because they can't reap the benefits of their hard work, sacrifice and risk? What encourages them to innovate and create new products to or services that people want? If not for capitalism we wouldn't have the many things we take for granted today. We wouldn't even be having this discussion on this forum because there would be no reason to create the means to do it. Everything we take for granted today started with a person coming up with an idea creating a product and selling it for yes the evil word PROFIT. In doing so he or she improved the life of the purchaser of that product. It is the freedom of people and business to exchange goods servics and money that drives innovation and promotes personal and social growth. That is what makes capitalism great. I admit it's not perfect but it is the best system ever created by man
                      I'm too lazy to give a lesson, but here you go. This is a good basic site to get acquainted with different issues of freedom and liberities.

                      http://www.freedomhouse.org/report-types/freedom-world

                      Here's another one that doesn't frame it in terms of freedom, but in terms of functionality of the state (and hence inherently gives some insight into how a state helps or hurts certain pursuits)

                      http://ffp.statesindex.org/rankings-2013-sortable
                      Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Dec 11, 2013, 02:59 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
                        The very basis of capitalism is freedom, thereby making it inherent.
                        Although this sounds snappy, I'm struggling to find the real meaning in this sentence.
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

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                        • #72
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          No one is saying you're crazy, or out for attention. Just that Alex Jones is, and that you may have been caught in his web of misinformation.

                          Or perhaps he is the only one telling the truth and the rest of us are all sheep. Anything is possible.
                          Or perhaps niether is the case. I just find it difficult to discredit somehing merely because of the messenger. I mean politician lie everyday and later these lieslead to scandals yet we as a society continue to eat it up without question. I think critical thinking is on the ropes.

                          Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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                          • #73
                            It should also be noted in all of this, that Canada is about as "Communist" as a Capitalist country can get; what with its Government run Health Care. The equivalent in the states was recently panned as "Commiunist" within the US. You guys must HATE all that free Communist Health Care.

                            The NBA has actually been charged with being Anti-Capitalist several times in the past. Why shouldn't these athletes be able to choose where they Play and how much they earn? Why do all teams have to have an equal shot at winning? Why do they have Revenue Sharing?!
                            Its SOO communist.
                            Last edited by Joey; Wed Dec 11, 2013, 03:27 PM.

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                            • #74
                              I would disgree. Most industries are free game for all, and elections are legitimate and tranparent. There sure is a lot of corruption still though but Canada is nothing like your classic real examples of communist countries.

                              Some would ague that there are problems with Canada's health system... And its not free. Why do you think your income taxes are so high? You don't even get to see how much you spend on health care. You don't have a seat at the table. Whenever there is a lack of competition there is a lack of motivation. Why do you think wait times are so long for surgeries and specialist appointments?

                              I get the merits but lets not lose sight of what it is and how its funded.


                              Most Americans didn't want Obamacare and it's been a collossal failure so far.

                              The NBA isn't a communist entity. They're out to make as much as they can. They operate in a market against competitors. I don't get your point, there is no government control and players don't get paid equally, quite the contrary. They get paid based on market demand within the confines of a collective bargaining agreement. Some of the owners benefit from revenue sharing but they don't make equal profits and they don't share in equal risk.

                              Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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                              • #75
                                This was just published today! So, funny that a thread on communism breaks out here. What I do is pretty rarely relevant here, so here you go.

                                Interview with Dmytri Kleiner, Venture Communist and Miscommunications Technologist

                                http://c-realm.blogspot.de/2013/12/i...r-venture.html

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