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Thread: Nelson Mandela: The World Loses an Icon.

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    You're referencing Alex Jones..? THE Alex Jones?

    I won't go into that since I guess you know what referencing Alex Jones will do to your argument ...

    And you're DAMN right Nelson Mandela "was no George Washington" ... George Washington was EXACTLY the type of person that Nelson Mandela was fighting.
    George Washington was a Slave Owner his entire life, who killed and massacred the Native peoples of North America exactly as the Europeans were doing in SA.
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 09:14 AM.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Quote lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    I know you all are gonna laugh at me for the rest of my life but what a communist and whats so bad bout them?
    Here's my take: http://dmytri.info/communism

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  4. #43
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    You make a great distinction in your blog post Quirk: Democracy and Communism are NOT mutually exclusive. I think alot of people ignorantly associate Communism with Tyrannical Dictatorships.

    Communism is a form of Economics.
    Democracy is a form of Government.
    In Masai we Trust.

  5. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    If communism is so great why did/do so many people flee it for freedom. Why are cubans willing to risk their lives for freedom. Why do the Chinese do the same? What is so fucking great about have your life run by someone else. If you like being told what job you are going to work and what money you will make and what religion you will practice then fine. Get out of Canada. This is the land of the free not the oppressed.

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    You make a great distinction in your blog post Quirk: Democracy and Communism are NOT mutually exclusive. I think alot of people ignorantly associate Communism with Tyrannical Dictatorships.

    Communism is a form of Economics.
    Democracy is a form of Government.
    Wow, as if government and economics don't go hand in hand.

  7. #46
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    If communism is so great why did/do so many people flee it for freedom. Why are cubans willing to risk their lives for freedom. Why do the Chinese do the same? What is so fucking great about have your life run by someone else. If you like being told what job you are going to work and what money you will make and what religion you will practice then fine. Get out of Canada. This is the land of the free not the oppressed.
    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    Wow, as if government and economics don't go hand in hand.
    Get out of Canada? Seriously? You sound silly and ignorant.

    That's all you have left for an argument? Lol Fair enough.


    Hand-in-Hand is NOT the same thing as being Mutually Exclusive.
    You can have a Democratically Elected Communist Government, which does not equate to this 'Tyrannical Dictatorship' you continue to describe and argue against. They are NOT the same thing.
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 12:23 PM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  8. #47
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    You're referencing Alex Jones..? THE Alex Jones?

    I won't go into that since I guess you know what referencing Alex Jones will do to your argument ...

    And you're DAMN right Nelson Mandela "was no George Washington" ... George Washington was EXACTLY the type of person that Nelson Mandela was fighting.
    George Washington was a Slave Owner his entire life, who killed and massacred the Native peoples of North America exactly as the Europeans were doing in SA.
    Joey, have you ever taken the time to look into what he says? As in checking his facts before writing him off? He's a hot head but he's backing his claims with substance. I get it though, he goes against the grain and takes people outside the comfort zone. Its easier to write him off then consider the implications of where he takes the discussion.

    The mainstream is bought and owned by megacorporations...Wait, you don't think you're getting everything out of that filtered garbage, do you? It's basically a propaganda platform now and there are many, many recent examples of the disinformation which takes place there. If you want all the information, unfiltered, you need to go to the independents like Jones and more so Drudge.

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  10. #48
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    If communism is so great why did/do so many people flee it for freedom. Why are cubans willing to risk their lives for freedom. Why do the Chinese do the same? What is so fucking great about have your life run by someone else. If you like being told what job you are going to work and what money you will make and what religion you will practice then fine. Get out of Canada. This is the land of the free not the oppressed.
    This is an emotional response. Logically you cannot use the examples of people who dont like a system to attack the systems capabilities. Its like saying, some people don't like steak, therefor steak is bad. Steak may be bad, but its bad for other reasons than some people not liking it.

    "What is so fucking great about have your life run by someone else"
    This is an example of ethnocentrism. Humans are capable of living in a multitude of diverse systems. A Navajo man may ask you how you can live a life run by money? Its really what you are brought up in and what you are used to that you arbitrarily prefer.

    You mention freedom, but freedom is an empty word. Pure freedom is ridiculous (Gravity constrains my will to fly), freedom from people is ridiculous (Peoples decisions decide my fate all the time, sometimes despite my will), so what are we free from?
    What Freedoms do Capitalism protect de facto?

    Also, your perception of Communism as forcing you to do specific things, like choosing your religion and jobs, is false. There are plenty of diverse Communistic systems, as there are Capitalist systems. Both USA and Saudi are Capitalistic, yet totally different states of Governance.
    Russia, China, Cuba, and North Korea are totally different from one another. Yes, there have been forms of Communism that include Tyranny against religion and job classes, but thats like pointing to Saudi and saying that Capitalism leads to Theocratic Nationalist Monarchies.
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  12. #49
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Joey, have you ever taken the time to look into what he says? As in checking his facts before writing him off? He's a hot head but he's backing his claims with substance. I get it though, he goes against the grain and takes people outside the comfort zone. Its easier to write him off then consider the implications of where he takes the discussion.

    Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
    He has a track record for being a nut. I would take what he says with a huge grain of salt. He goes against the grain as a way to make a name for himself, he speaks loud as he is more likely to be heard. A man with a legit point doesn't need to use the assumed implications of impending doom to get it across. Yet every other word from Alex Jones is assuming conspiracy leading to impending doom (thus his hothead attitude). I think its disgusting some of the reports he does on serious incidents with real victims, literally the day after their occurrences, spewing anti-government conspiracy and warning us from falling into the Medias lies.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  13. #50
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I take what people say and resesrch it for myself. So please, tell me why he's a nut? Is it because he doesn't approach topics with the same monotone, brain numbing approach that you see on cable TV? Or is it because he's telling lies? If it's lies then please give examples and also explain to my why no one sues his pants off? He has a huge audience, if he's slandering people why no resistence from... anybody?

    He typically tells you exactly what to go read to do the research for yourself so if he's untruthful it should be easy to spot...

    One more thing, you sound as though your main problem is with his delivery. If you actaully stop and listen to whats said, go read the documents for yourself or research the crdibilty of his guests you will probably come to the conclusion I have. He's rather overenthusiastic, but sights verifiable truths which you don't get on most of the tightly controlled mainstream crap. His opponents use his personality to discredit the information; controlling perception to discredit facts.

    I'll take the independents who only need worry about laws over the mainstream who only are allowed to report on what they've been granted permission to report on.

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  14. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    How is it an emotional argument to point out the number of people that flee communism for freedom as compared to the number of people that flee freedom for communism? That's fact people flee tyranny for freedom. What communist country built a higher standard of living for the vast majority of its people than the US?

    The vast majority of Chinese live in poverty and face some of the worst human rights violations on earth. Must be the capitalist in them that's responsible for that right?

  15. #52
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    How is it an emotional argument to point out the number of people that flee communism for freedom as compared to the number of people that flee freedom for communism? That's fact people flee tyranny for freedom. What communist country built a higher standard of living for the vast majority of its people than the US?

    The vast majority of Chinese live in poverty and face some of the worst human rights violations on earth. Must be the capitalist in them that's responsible for that right?
    I can't have this discussion with you anymore, because you continue to ignore what I am trying to tell you.
    You are not listening, and therefore this is pointless.

    As for Alex Jones, all I'll say is that he is a theorist. You can't call a "theory" a lie.
    But you can make anything you want up and piece any two things together based on "theory".
    In Masai we Trust.

  16. #53
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    China, North Korea, the former Soviet Union: all places where you could be jailed or worst for discussing whats been said in this thread. That's a point no one has mentioned thus far...

    True capitalism is the closest thing to true freedom.

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  18. #54
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Its not a theory when you have verifiable documents and witnesses backing it up... Well that is, unless you live in our society where if the black box says otherwise then it must be discredited without investigation.

    Investigative reporting is suffering a full on assault by the Repeaters.

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  20. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    China, North Korea, the former Soviet Union: all places where you could be jailed or worst for discussing whats been said in this thread. That's a point no one has mentioned thus far...

    True capitalism is the closest thing to true freedom.

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    Sigh

    As has been noted in regard to communism and democracy....

    Capitalism is an economic system. It in no way bestows freedom on somebody. It merely is a method for goods and services to be traded freely. Freedom does not equal being able to decide what to buy. In fact, the mere concept of capitalism ensure that everyone requires an income to survive, yet there are a very finite number of jobs, and more importantly, a finite number of desirable jobs that each person would want. Many people thus end up having to do tasks they would never want to, and end up doing them for most of their life. That is not freedom, even if it gives them the opportunity to have a high economic standard of living, and acquire goods and service that aid their quality of life. They are still slaves to the system, but unlike communism they generally have more political and civil liberties.

    The closest thing to true freedom is pure anarchy. Unfortunately it's pretty freakin impossible for that to work on a vast scale. Essentially to have no government, and to be able to work together when it's beneficial, but have your independence otherwise, and most importantly, without infringing on the personal freedoms of others.

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  22. #56
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alex_Jones

    "The Alex Avalanche is a particular debating style common to Jones. In fact, it's the only thing he ever employs. It is similar to the Gish Gallop, wherein the interviewee completely dominates the discussion; not allowing the interviewer, or any other panel members an opportunity to interject and add their own thoughts, or opinions."



    he ranted non-stop about the Bilderberg Group and how they were behind the implementation of the Euro, which was somehow originally a Nazi plot.
    Verifiable facts and witness testimony? I respect you Apollo, but I have to say that nothing I have heard from Jones gives me the impression that he has any journalistic integrity to him.

    On April 15 2013, two assailants bombed the Boston Marathon. Three people died in the explosion, generated by crudely made explosives, with over a hundred and seventy injured or mutilated. Of course almost immediately, Alex Jones generated a conspiracy about it, claiming the suspects were patsies and it was done by the government, even going so far to accuse a guy itching his own ear of being a FBI agent.
    In addition, Jones insisted that missing Brown University student Sunil Tripathi had something to do with the bombings;[40] this particular bit of false information was made especially regrettable (if not outright disgusting) by the fact that Tripathi has since been found dead.
    Not even a few days after an incredibly severe Oklahoma tornado, Alex Jones, much like a vulture floating down to a carcass, descended upon the victims of the tornado, and began spinning a yarn about the government possibly creating this tornado on purpose. While he would claim he did not say the government did, he in fact did, by spinning a yarn about their capabilities of doing so, and creating a facade of uncertainty by saying who knows if they did.


    Here are his own personal quotes:

    Devil worshiping pedophiles basically run the New World Order. They love death and they love killing babies.
    Nerds are the biggest danger in America.
    666 is a doubling of 33. And 33 is pi.
    All the sources to the above are found in the link.
    Last edited by enlightenment; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
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  24. #57
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Well duh, but capitalism and freedom tend to hang out together a lot. The movies, pool, checking out girls, they're best buds.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well duh, but capitalism and freedom tend to hang out together a lot. The movies, pool, checking out girls, they're best buds.

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    No they don't. That's why we had a great depression and decades of protest in Western Nations (roughly a century? is it even really close to done or has the scale just diminished?). Capitalism immediately creates a situation of high potential for exploiter-exploitee dynamics, which inherently makes it extremely difficult to have any balanced level of freedoms. Without social programs to offset such dynamics, we'd be living in a very very different world. So you can thank communists for that.

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  27. #59
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Nothing inherent in Capitalism promises freedoms.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  28. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Nothing inherent in Capitalism promises freedoms.
    The very basis of capitalism is freedom, thereby making it inherent.

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