View Poll Results: Is the never ending debate settled?

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  • Yes - #tankON

    40 67.80%
  • No - #playoffsAWAIT

    19 32.20%
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Thread: Debate settled......

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Fuuuuuuck I'm so conflicted. I have no idea how to feel when watching their games. I love watching them win but I reallllllly don't want them to win any games.

    I want this guy
    Me exactly.
    Writer for RaptorsWatch.com

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  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    LOL. You people think this trade means they're tanking???

    I dont know what Ujiri's plan is but this trade has actually made the Raptors a better team. They now have depth and they now have a LEGIT backup PG who's more than capable of being a starter in Vazquez.
    I actually agree with this. While these contracts predominantly end this year, the Raps did get a starter quality PG aswell as some serviceable players, while giving up the best prospect in Acy (well I think anyways). This return is similar to the Augustine/Hansborough signings... not a clear tank indication or a win now indication. Another 'wait and see' (what else happens) move if anything.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Rudy was so bad this year that the team will probably improve just by removing him from the lineup. But outside of Vasquez I don't think we are getting much back from Sacramento outside of cap flexibility. Hayes is on his last legs as a pro, and Salmons/PP were both mediocre reserves on a lousy team. For all the talk about Rudy's poor shooting, Salmons/Patterson are shooting 35% and 41% from the field respectively.

    The tank is on gentlemen. I'd expect Lowry and at least one of Amir/DD to be gone by Christmas Day. Novak or Hansbrough are also in play.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star Superjudge's Avatar
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    How many game did toronto lose by 5pts or less?

    cuz thats what I think Rudy's efficiency issue cost toronto.

    toronto has a some decent players, with Gay gone, if they are given meaningful roles they will likely play well, well enough to keep this team out of the top 5 picks.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I really can't see how anyone could say the Raptors are a better team now. We got junk in exchange for junk (let's all stop drooling over Vasquez please).

    The Raptors will continue to lose a lot more games than they win. If that's not tanking, I'm not sure what is.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I really can't see how anyone could say the Raptors are a better team now. We got junk in exchange for junk (let's all stop drooling over Vasquez please).

    The Raptors will continue to lose a lot more games than they win. If that's not tanking, I'm not sure what is.
    Improve the offensive efficiency even a little likely bumps a few wins. Defence has no change.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star Superjudge's Avatar
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    thank you axel.

    its about extrapolating and trusting the numbers.

    A happier and more balanced team who is a few percentage points better will score more points. Over 50 games, that could lead to 5-6 wins more, and losing out on wiggans, parker etc.

    I dont care who toronto got back at all, honestly, its about who is still there, and who is gone.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Improve the offensive efficiency even a little likely bumps a few wins. Defence has no change.
    Dwane Casey is still coaching this team. The offense will continue to stank because Casey has instilled a consequence-free environment.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #49
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    We could get no players back from SAC and be a better team as showed vs Lakers last night. Yes i know small sample size be we saw a better defensive effort. Lots of ball movement. Effective pick and rolls, open 3's (yes novak missed a lot but still.) And if only Landry could hit shots he would be a great player.

    Thing is i don't want to get better… Best way to suck is after this tough stretch coming up say bye bye lowry… His value is rising and without Gay will continue to rise. Jv and Demar only guys who i don't want touched. Ross id prefer not but if he's gotta go he's gotta go. Amir i love but… i think he may be able to return us a late first rounder which would be awesome.

    And not to get off topic but the people talking about wiggins… he is a SF who from what I've seen would be a great fit with Demar. Wiggins from what I've seen is not about getting his on offence. He is a play within the system and can score in basically any way. I could see them being one of the best wing combos in 3-4 years( of course assuming we get Wiggins.) Also I've heard lots of good things about Wiggins defence….

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Dwane Casey is still coaching this team. The offense will continue to stank because Casey has instilled a consequence-free environment.
    Perhaps, the way I see it is that less Rudy Gay jumpers + less Augustin/Buycks/Stone running the 2nd unit is probably good for an extra couple of points on most nights.

    On defence, no change with Gay on or off the court this year (107:106 Team DRtg), and Fields will likely do a better job. Hayes will battle and fight and could help develop JV. A front court pairing of Hayes and Hansbrough is all out hustle and should get us a couple extra possessions per game.

    Overall, net improvement.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    ok, floors yours, explain why he doesn't belong.

    Thats just a starter. But fire away, why does Demar Derozan not "fit" with Toronto.
    I think the most legit Devil's Advocate argument here is that he doesn't fit timing-wise. And that has zero to do with him.

    If you go into next year with a third year Val, and a couple of rookies as your core, well, by the time they are ready to do anything (2-3 years) DD's contract is expiring. So, if he's not part of your new core, you can argue it's best to move him and get what you can for him now when he's a guy entering his prime with 3 years of team control left, rather than wait 2 years.

    I'm not sure you can make any other "fit" arguments cause no one know what this team will look like July 31, 2014. Only Ujiri knows that and even he can only have a rough idea at this point.

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  13. #52
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    The Gay and Bragnani trade is more evidence that Masai is following his Denver Nuggets "rebuild on the fly" strategy when he traded Carmelo. The team is not that much worse off without Gay but they have improved their cap situation for next years free agency. I see this as more of perpetuating the treadmill of medicority.

  14. #53
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote rap wrote: View Post
    The Gay and Bragnani trade is more evidence that Masai is following his Denver Nuggets "rebuild on the fly" strategy when he traded Carmelo. The team is not that much worse off without Gay but they have improved their cap situation for next years free agency. I see this as more of perpetuating the treadmill of medicority.
    Whatever Ujiri's next move is, should tell us what direction he's taking. But IMO, there isn't much doubt. He'll do everything in his power to avoid the treadmill....he's said so himself.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  16. #54
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Whatever Ujiri's next move is, should tell us what direction he's taking. But IMO, there isn't much doubt. He'll do everything in his power to avoid the treadmill....he's said so himself.
    If the raps are going to tank then no more half arse rebuilds and trades. Gut the team, maximize the draft pick so we can draft lott and then rebuild. This half tank, to move up a spot or two on draft day is doomed to fail and lead to mediocrity.

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  18. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote rap wrote: View Post
    If the raps are going to tank then no more half arse rebuilds and trades. Gut the team, maximize the draft pick so we can draft lott and then rebuild. This half tank, to move up a spot or two on draft day is doomed to fail and lead to mediocrity.
    What half tank? We're only a month into the season. No reason to think Ujiri's done playing. Can't gut the team with one move.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  20. #56
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    It's hard to tell from the trade whether they're tanking or not. The only thing that suggests that a 'tank' is on is Ujiri comment which was "I don't want to be stuck in no man's land'. Problem is when you think about it, the trade could also mean a 'no tank'. The next few days should give us a clearer idea.

    What's encouraging is that whether it's a tank or no tank, the trade has put the Raps. in a better position because it puts them in a good financial position.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  21. #57
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What half tank? We're only a month into the season. No reason to think Ujiri's done playing. Can't gut the team with one move.
    Fair enough. Though I'm not clear why folks acting like we are "tanking" when the job is half done.
    Maybe we are and maybe we are not but for now this is still not clear.

  22. #58
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote rap wrote: View Post
    Fair enough. Though I'm not clear why folks acting like we are "tanking" when the job is half done.
    Maybe we are and maybe we are not but for now this is still not clear.
    I agree it's not obvious based on the move alone. But when you factor in the half-tank strategy that Colangelo employed, combined with Ujiri's hiring being the "anti-Colangelo", I think it's fair to assume this trade is the first domino to fall.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  23. #59
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    That's just an opinion man.

    Anyway, not sure why people here are acting they now know what direction Masai is going because like i said. This trade made the Raptors a better team.
    It's an opinion, but it's a more educated one than those posted here. Media guys have to wear their opinions; posters don't. Media guys are therefore more measured with theirs, as they don't want to be exposed later.

    Trade #1 may have improved the Raptors, addition by subtraction and all that. We'll see. But whatever Trade #1 did, we'll know more after Trade #2 (stay tuned to a sports media outlet near you).

    Tank is on.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  24. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    I think everyone is overestimating the impact the Sacramento guys will have.

    Hayes is hanging on by a thread in the league. He's been declining for three plus years and counting. I think he can be valuable as a high character vet, especially if there's a bunch of losing on the horizon, but he's not going to help them win any more games. Salmons will be a 34 year old swing man next week, is shooting 35% for the season, and is posting the lowest PER (8.5) of his entire career. His best days are WAY behind him and he should be behind DD/Fields/Ross/Novak on the team's perimeter depth chart. Patterson is a lot younger but is having as equally as bad of a season and is also posting a career low for PER. He probably won't see a ton of time until Amir/Psycho T get moved anyway, and once that happens, he becomes a clear downgrade. Vasquez is a high end back up who won't get the bulk of minutes until Lowry gets moved as well.

    We just got one decent player, and three below average ones from a 5-13 team and people are worried that we've accidentally made our team too good. Relax.

    And this is only Ujiri's first move! The tank is alive.
    Last edited by Fully; Mon Dec 9th, 2013 at 01:03 PM.

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