View Poll Results: Is the never ending debate settled?

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  • Yes - #tankON

    40 67.80%
  • No - #playoffsAWAIT

    19 32.20%
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Thread: Debate settled......

  1. #61
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    I'm actually excited to see Vasquez and JV n Amir play together. Lowry is playing great basketball now. With Vasquez here IMO we should keep lowry and have that 2 PG punch. Keep building MU. Let tanknation think we are tanking. Raptors looked like a team last night.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote redyraptor wrote: View Post
    I'm actually excited to see Vasquez and JV n Amir play together. Lowry is playing great basketball now. With Vasquez here IMO we should keep lowry and have that 2 PG punch. Keep building MU. Let tanknation think we are tanking. Raptors looked like a team last night.
    The raptors have 5 point guards, one of which has great value as a trade asset. Lowry will be moved along with at least Amir or DD, I'm figuring MU is due for a package deal involving multiple teams. His mandate it championships and this team isn't even close. More moves coming, tank nation lives on.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    The raptors have 5 point guards, one of which has great value as a trade asset. Lowry will be moved along with at least Amir or DD, I'm figuring MU is due for a package deal involving multiple teams. His mandate it championships and this team isn't even close. More moves coming, tank nation lives on.
    Pretty sure we are going to cut one of those 5. Once the deal goes through, we are over the roster limit. Buycks is likely gone but I'd prefer to cut Augustin.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    As constructed - a playoff team.
    With the very likely follow-up trades - TANK
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Pretty sure we are going to cut one of those 5. Once the deal goes through, we are over the roster limit. Buycks is likely gone but I'd prefer to cut Augustin.
    Personally I hope Austin Daye gets cut. I honestly think he has the least value on the team.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Personally I hope Austin Daye gets cut.
    Agreed, but I doubt he will. The bright side is that Augustin could be included as a cheap vet PG (likely 3rd string) in one of the future deals and it is quite possible that Buycks would still be available later in the season.

    Stone shouldn't even be in the discussion imo.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Pretty sure we are going to cut one of those 5. Once the deal goes through, we are over the roster limit. Buycks is likely gone but I'd prefer to cut Augustin.
    Agreed. But Augustin is more tradeable in a package deal. Buycks will likely get picked up by someone looking for a project.

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Agreed, but I doubt he will. The bright side is that Augustin could be included as a cheap vet PG (likely 3rd string) in one of the future deals and it is quite possible that Buycks would still be available later in the season.

    Stone shouldn't even be in the discussion imo.
    Welll I think it'll come down to Buycks or Daye. And I think a young PG making his first stint in the league has more value, even as a final piece of filler, than a soft combo forward who seems like he's on his way out. I mean, if they cut both, I'd be more confident Buycks will be picked up by another NBA team than Daye.

    Not exactly a make or break decision anyway.

    *I'd like to add to this that I literally had forgotten Austin Daye is on the Raptors roster.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Dec 9th, 2013 at 01:54 PM.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    F*ck Brooklyn

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  11. #70
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Welll I think it'll come down to Buycks or Daye. And I think a young PG making his first stint in the league has more value, even as a final piece of filler, than a soft combo forward who seems like he's on his way out. I mean, if they cut both, I'd be more confident Buycks will be picked up by another NBA team than Daye.

    Not exactly a make or break decision anyway.

    *I'd like to add to this that I literally had forgotten Austin Daye is on the Raptors roster.
    haha I'll admit I forgot about Daye as well, but it still seems very unlikely to carry 5 PGs, even if 2 are dealt.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  12. #71
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    haha I'll admit I forgot about Daye as well, but it still seems very unlikely to carry 5 PGs, even if 2 are dealt.
    But it would be worth it just for the ability to joke about Casey rolling out an all PG small ball lineup.

    Picturing post-game now:
    Casey: "We needed to move the ball, and we needed quickness on D"
    Reporter: "You lost the rebounding battle 68-21. You didn't score a single point in the paint. What was your thought process?"
    Casey: "We thought that we would make up for the lack of scoring inside with better outside shooting, but guys missed shots. And we hoped that by being quick on D, we'd force them into long jumpers with long rebounds so we wouldn't have to fight under the glass"

  13. #72
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Doug Smith like a defiant dictator telling the rebels about to topple his palace to, "Get the eff outta here!"

    I’m not saying for sure it is better and there are still many issues to be addressed but to think Masai was giving up on this season with this trade is ridiculous, to me.

    It could very well turn out that they struggle but I don’t think so, I think they have a more traditional offence now that there is one less ball-stopper on the floor, I think they are better at the backup point guard spot, I think this might free up more opportunities for Valanciunas and Amir.

    Sometimes, really, less is more.

    And I know Masai. He is not of the mind of playing to lose, it goes against a lot of what he stands for and believes in, he will tweak and make more bold moves and know that everything is a gamble and that some will fail.

    This whole nebulous “tank” thing makes me, frankly, sick. First off, it takes years to truly tear at team down, it doesn’t happen in one or ever two transactions. It’s a fake word that over-simplifies a process; a trite expression invented for no other reason than to irk me, I bet.

    And if you don’t have those years, or that predilection of getting truly horrible, you make trades simply to further your cause for what you want the roster to become and see how it works out.

    Masai, with this deal, has rid himself of his most troubling contract and, in some ways, made his team better. It’s a step, one step in a long process of changing things.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_s..._blessing.html

    You see where I think I have the fundamental difference with Dougie is this:

    The Raptors are not a good team - no way, no how. Sure, they might compete for a playoff spot in a historically bad Eastern Conference but that does not make a good team. If anything it reinforces the notions of a horrible franchise.

    So while Doug says it takes years to truly tear a team down, I say bullsh!t. Why? Well, a whole bunch of more manageable trade pieces were just acquired for one albatross of a contract. It is possible that only Chuck Hayes remains after this season and he is on a small $5.9M expiring next season. That is not years, that is 16 months.

    Where else is Doug missing the forest through the trees? Tearing a team down and building one are not mutually exclusive. You can build while tearing down - how? You can make a coaching change to get a new coach who fits a new direction (or is just competent, that would be a start). There is a thing called the draft where really talented players can come in. There is a thing called not burning a hole in one's pocket with cap space. Cap space does not need to be spent. Cap space also does not need to be pissed away. Cap space can be strategically used (for example, taking on horrible contracts to extract assets such as prospects and picks next season). Even keeping Novak and DeRozan, should the not add salary for 2015-16 they have just $21M on the books for 2015-16. And don't forget there are no limits on trades and cap space is extremely valuable in those as well. No matter what way or method Toronto pursues they are going to need a bit of luck and come 2015-16 this team could be on the verge of competing for decades.


    Summary: Tearing a team down and building a team are not mutually exclusive. This years argument is nonsense unless you anticipate Ujiri sinking to the level of Khan or Petrie.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #73
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    The more I see Smitty quotes, the more I'm reminded why I stopped reading his work. The man is truly out to lunch.

    Stick to reporting the news, Dougie. Your opinions are from bizzaro world.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #74
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Would love to hear the bball conversations between a drunk Dougie and Kelly at the Star's xmas party. Here are 2 guys working in the same department, covering the same team, who have completely opposite assessments of the team.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  17. #75
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The more I see Smitty quotes, the more I'm reminded why I stopped reading his work. The man is truly out to lunch.

    Stick to reporting the news, Dougie. Your opinions are from bizzaro world.
    I rarely read his work.

    I went today just to see how he was spinning the trade.... curiosity killed the cat.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #76
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I really can't see how anyone could say the Raptors are a better team now. We got junk in exchange for junk (let's all stop drooling over Vasquez please).

    The Raptors will continue to lose a lot more games than they win. If that's not tanking, I'm not sure what is.
    According to ESPN Trade Machine both teams got Worse. Which is amazing and weird sounding.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  19. #77
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I rarely read his work.

    I went today just to see how he was spinning the trade.... curiosity killed the cat.
    lol, even hearing his thoughts during radio interviews, I'm left thinking to myself, "really Doug, do you actually believe what you're saying???"
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #78
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Would love to hear the bball conversations between a drunk Dougie and Kelly at the Star's xmas party. Here are 2 guys working in the same department, covering the same team, who have completely opposite assessments of the team.
    The Raptors now have the option to trade Lowry and go forward with Vasquez, or use Vasquez as an attractive deadline chip. If they’re really committed to The Tank, they could deal both.

    With this comment I picture Doug standing up and tossing the table over. Explicit words come spewing from his mouth as he storms out to catch up with BryCo on Skype. Kelly smiles and says, "Checkmate."
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  22. #79
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Doug Smith is wrong about Basketball

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  24. #80
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Dwane Casey is still coaching this team. The offense will continue to stank because Casey has instilled a consequence-free environment.
    Its consequence free yet everyone is pining for Jonas to be gifted minutes with sub-par play?

    Not taking exception to you Nilanka, just a generalized statement and observation. And I cant stand bigs that pout.

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