Debate settled......

[S.R.]

Unbelievable. Every local sports writer is writing about the tank (Grange, Kelly, etc.). Every national basketball writer is writing about the tank (Stein, Lowe, etc.). Rudy Gay is saying things like "We all knew it was gonna happen; just the timing was a surprise." And there are STILL at least 9 fans in here who "still believe!" Congratulations for considering yourself optimists and "real fans" - you're only optimists in the sense that a man who just drove his car off a cliff believes he has finally learned to fly. Reality = irrelevant.

See you after the next big trade.

[Chr1s1anL]

+1,000,000


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[Burnit482]

Demar is a great piece to the hopeful direction of this team that all of #tanknation sees us heading in. I would love to get a top 5 pick and build around that. Obviously it would be great if we could trade anything but demar JV and get into the top 10 and have two players to build around with JV demar that to me would look the a hopeful championship team down the line. Chances of getting another top 10 pick without trading JV … doubtful.

Question to people if we are in bottom 5 and basically secure a top 5 pick… would you trade JV to get another top 6 pick (randle, parker, wiggins, exam, smart) pick two basically? I have mixed opinions because JV is already developing and has a shit load of potential. I really don't know what would be best but i do know that (we'll say wiggins) Demar Wiggins great wing combo that i could see fitting with each other. Jv as your big man… i think thats a nice core to build around. Andddd demar is not the key of it but he is a key piece to the overall group if that makes any sense at all.

Sure would be nice if we could get one of the PGS and wiggins in this draft… i would cum everywhere….

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Demar is a great piece to the hopeful direction of this team that all of #tanknation sees us heading in. I would love to get a top 5 pick and build around that. Obviously it would be great if we could trade anything but demar JV and get into the top 10 and have two players to build around with JV demar that to me would look the a hopeful championship team down the line. Chances of getting another top 10 pick without trading JV … doubtful.

Question to people if we are in bottom 5 and basically secure a top 5 pick… would you trade JV to get another top 6 pick (randle, parker, wiggins, exam, smart) pick two basically? I have mixed opinions because JV is already developing and has a shit load of potential. I really don't know what would be best but i do know that (we'll say wiggins) Demar Wiggins great wing combo that i could see fitting with each other. Jv as your big man… i think thats a nice core to build around. Andddd demar is not the key of it but he is a key piece to the overall group if that makes any sense at all.

Sure would be nice if we could get one of the PGS and wiggins in this draft… i would cum everywhere….

The JV trade is such a tough call, since you're not really gaining anything in terms of the number of quality young players on rookie-scale deals.

I could see MU keeping DeRozan through the season, then trading him during the draft, to acquire another lottery pick. For instance, could the Raps make a trade(s) to acquire a mid-late 1st round pick, then trade that pick (or multiple 2nd round picks and/or future picks) with DeRozan for a top-5/top-10 pick? DeRozan is slowly changing my mind on him, but to trade him for a younger, more talented player with loads more upside on rookie-deal, would be an absolute no-brainer.

I totally agree that the ideal outcome would be to keep JV and draft 2 studs in the lottery, 1 of which is a PG (obviously Wiggins & Exum would seem to be the perfect outcome for the Raps at this point). It does seem highly improbable though, but certainly not impossible.

[magoon]

Question to people if we are in bottom 5 and basically secure a top 5 pick… would you trade JV to get another top 6 pick (randle, parker, wiggins, exam, smart) pick two basically?

A star-level big is harder to get than a star-level wing or guard; there are lots of competent bigs but few really great ones, which is why Joel Embiid's stock is rising so fast in the draft and Julius Randle is being talked about as a #1 pick despite not having really shown anything on defense so far this year. Basically, trading JV only makes sense if you think you can get another star big through other means, be that free agency, trading, or the draft. There aren't really any star bigs easily gettable via trade and although Marc Gasol and LMA are available next year they're going to be hard to get. Trading JV in order to draft Embiid or Randle doesn't make much sense, so you don't trade JV for one lottery pick. MAYBE for two, like a #4 and a #12, that sort of range.

So, in summary: trading JV is on the table, but the return has to be really stupidly good to do it.

[mcHAPPY]

I saw Doug Smith's tweet on HoopsWorld.com twitter feed. I couldn't resist clicking as it said ".... next Raptors move."

I’m sure we’ll get into this more at the noon thing because it’s on everyone’s mind but I don’t think anyone should be surprised in the least with Masai’s suggestion that there are more moves to be made with the Raptors and that he wants to build a team that’s set for long-term success.

I just don’t think he has any plans to take it down to the barebones as so many are expecting.

Yes, there will be more trades and more assets acquired but it will all be done with building in mind, rather than stepping back.

Sure, the Gay trade was a salary dump – I don’t imagine any of the former Kings are seen as any kind of long-term bits to the Toronto franchise – but they are serviceable NBAers with short term deals that will allow for more moves to be made this year and into the summer.

But everything that has been done, and will be done, is about construction, not deconstruction.

I said yesterday that in some small way the Gay trade made the Raptors better; I don’t have any reason not to think that moves in the future will have the same result and be made with the same intentions.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_s...her_ever_.html

Bold 1: So the Raptors are going to make more trades where they send out their better players for better players? Because that is the only way I see the team taking steps forward rather than backwards.

Bold 2: Ahhhh, so this talk about tearing down a roster taking years was and is bogus? Exactly. Nice to see him acknowledging reality of situation while still proclaiming the moves have nothing to do with getting a top 5 draft pick but in fact are about getting better now.

I really hope for his sake he has started outsourcing his blog to a 12 year old.

[Burnit482]

A star-level big is harder to get than a star-level wing or guard; there are lots of competent bigs but few really great ones, which is why Joel Embiid's stock is rising so fast in the draft and Julius Randle is being talked about as a #1 pick despite not having really shown anything on defense so far this year. Basically, trading JV only makes sense if you think you can get another star big through other means, be that free agency, trading, or the draft. There aren't really any star bigs easily gettable via trade and although Marc Gasol and LMA are available next year they're going to be hard to get. Trading JV in order to draft Embiid or Randle doesn't make much sense, so you don't trade JV for one lottery pick. MAYBE for two, like a #4 and a #12, that sort of range.

So, in summary: trading JV is on the table, but the return has to be really stupidly good to do it.

I think that is a fair analysis. I would jump at the chance to get like a 4th and 12th for Jv but is that realistic? i have no idea. The biggest reason i wouldn't want to trade Jv is we're reaching the end of his "development years" that bigs take before they really start making their mark on the league. So basically we'd do the work of turning him into a star and not get the potential until hopefully the draft picks pan out in 3 years. that part doesn't make a lot of sense to me which is why i agree with you it would have to be like two picks or something.

This is a fantasy but i just dream next year coming into the season with JV, Wiggins, Demar, Exum/Smart as my core … i don't think that is even possible but i dream about that at night...

[Uncle_Si]

If JV for Harden is used as a baseline for assessing the value of JV, then how about this perspective. Is harden worth 2 first round picks in this draft? I'd imagine many would say yes, add in JV on a rookie scale contract and it seems at least plausible. The problem is who do you get them from? Phoenix maybe?

[thead]

we need to collect players that people will want AND ARE WILLING TO GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS FOR Feb 20th by Dec 19th this and losing should be our only concern

[mcHAPPY]

we need to collect players that people will want and are willing to give up draft picks for Feb 20th by Dec 19th this and losing should be our only concern

I would add to the above - see bold

[thead]

I would add to the above - see bold

noted

[Nilanka]

Unbelievable. Every local sports writer is writing about the tank (Grange, Kelly, etc.). Every national basketball writer is writing about the tank (Stein, Lowe, etc.). Rudy Gay is saying things like "We all knew it was gonna happen; just the timing was a surprise." And there are STILL at least 9 fans in here who "still believe!" Congratulations for considering yourself optimists and "real fans" - you're only optimists in the sense that a man who just drove his car off a cliff believes he has finally learned to fly. Reality = irrelevant.

See you after the next big trade.

LOL!

Tanking is for losers and fairweathers....

....and also for Masai Ujiri.

[iblastoff]

sorry but is delman21 some weird alter ego troll of peanutwoozle? such horribly written arguments.

[Chr1s1anL]

Even after the interview I don't think Massai is T word.


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[white men can't jump]

sorry but is delman21 some weird alter ego troll of peanutwoozle? such horribly written arguments.

Sometimes I feel like it's the by-product of Toronto having sports fans that grow up watching the Leafs. Diminishes the smarts of casual sports fans, as they are possibly the best example of a treadmill team in any sport. Even the Bucks have won a championship more recently than them.

They just throw together a team that gives fans enough reason to cheer by fighting on the fringes of the playoffs year after year. And fans start to believe that any scrappy treadmill team which is light years away from true contention are just "a couple of pieces away" or some such, because of years of being sold such a shitty product with so much spin.