View Poll Results: Where will the Raptors finsih this year?

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  • In the playoffs.

    5 19.23%
  • In no man's land.

    4 15.38%
  • In the top 5 of the draft.

    17 65.38%
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Thread: Will the Raptors make the playoffs, end up in no-man's land, or get a top pick?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Default Will the Raptors make the playoffs, end up in no-man's land, or get a top pick?

    Rudy is gone! IMO the Raptors are actually improved by the deal and will likely be competing for the top spot in the Atlantic division or a low seed in the playoffs. Rudy is an ok defender but if you take his 18.6 shots and redistribute them to guys like Johnson and Lowry, the offense is going to be a lot more efficient. I think we end up in the playoffs either as the fourth or seventh seed. What sayeth you?
    Last edited by hateslosing; Mon Dec 9th, 2013 at 10:44 AM. Reason: spelling
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  3. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I don't mean to repeat myself, but Dwane Casey is still coaching this team. I have no fear of any improvements with Casey manning the clipboard
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Realistically I see this team with a top 8 pick.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I think at least one of the New York teams gets straightened out a bit, whether it's by getting healthy, a roster shake up, coaching change, or just snapping out of the haze that they've played the first month and a half of the season in.

    I can't say for sure that the Raptors will land in the top five of the draft, but I think they'll be in the conversation no doubt. The writing is on the wall for Lowry to be moved before too long, and everyone else on the roster is probably in play as well. Those moves will hurt the Raptors chances of winning in the short term.

    I trust Masai when he says that the team will not end up in no man's land, and since they are still nowhere close to being a contender, I'd say the tank is on.

  7. #5
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't mean to repeat myself, but Dwane Casey is still coaching this team. I have no fear of any improvements with Casey manning the clipboard
    They'll be a scrappy team though and will limit opponents to less than 100 ppg conceivable for the rest of the way. If the team sheds Lowry and Derozan, could be top 3. BTW, you know who's our new tank commander? Landry Fields. Dude is "out-of-this-world" BAD.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  8. #6
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    As is, i think we'd finish like... 9th?

    I'm pretty sure they're going to trade Lowry and maybe Demar too though. So top 5 is possible.
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  9. #7
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    the problem is how terrible the east is. we could easily blunder into a 7/8 seed.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Before this question is answered I think you have to know if Masai is done dealing.

    It would appear not.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    the problem is how terrible the east is. we could easily blunder into a 7/8 seed.
    Given the east to date, its true.

    However, there are still plenty of ways for this team to lose more games. For example a starting line up of Val/Patterson/Fields/Ross/Stone could easily be worst in the league bad.

    The question comes down to risk - how much are Masai/TL/MLSE willing to risk to get out of "no mans land"?

  12. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Given the east to date, its true.

    However, there are still plenty of ways for this team to lose more games. For example a starting line up of Val/Patterson/Fields/Ross/Stone could easily be worst in the league bad.

    The question comes down to risk - how much are Masai/TL/MLSE willing to risk to get out of "no mans land"?
    answer should be everything
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  13. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Before this question is answered I think you have to know if Masai is done dealing.

    It would appear not.
    Assume no deals are forthcoming. This is a purely hypothetical discussion.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  14. #12
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    http://tracking.si.com/2013/12/07/mi...infected-knee/

    Infected knee doesn't sound good and I'm sure the 76ers wont rush him back. No word yet if the Doctors are investigating his tiny head yet.

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  16. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I answered with the assumption of what happens by the end of the year. I don't buy that we're better without Gay. We may play more "fundamentally sound" basketball, but that doesn't mean we'll win more games.

    I already said this in another thread, but I remain unconvinced on how losing talent and not really gaining any notable talent results in winning more games. What about the Lakers game? Well, what about when Matt Flynn threw 6 TD's against the Detroit Lions in 2012? If Amir Johnson averages 32 ppg for the rest of the season, then I'll change my mind.

    You may not like it, but Gay was one of if not the best defender on the team. So no matter how "scrappy" this team is going forward, teams are going to score more against us than they did before. It certainly doesn't help that Tyler is out. As far as offense goes, Rudy averaged 19 ppg. He shot horribly, sure, but that you can't deny he didn't draw double and triple teams. That simply won't happen for anyone else on this team, not to the consistency that Gay saw every time that moron dribbled down the court and looked for his own shot.

    Those extra 18.6 shot attempts per game? Sure, 39% was terrible. But Lowry shot 42%, DeRozan 43%, Ross 41%. That's not a whole lot better and that was while Gay was getting double teamed. And the guy who benefits most from the Gay trade? Landry Fields is shooting 37% this year.
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  18. #14
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I answered with the assumption of what happens by the end of the year. I don't buy that we're better without Gay. We may play more "fundamentally sound" basketball, but that doesn't mean we'll win more games.

    I already said this in another thread, but I remain unconvinced on how losing talent and not really gaining any notable talent results in winning more games. What about the Lakers game? Well, what about when Matt Flynn threw 6 TD's against the Detroit Lions in 2012? If Amir Johnson averages 32 ppg for the rest of the season, then I'll change my mind.

    You may not like it, but Gay was one of if not the best defender on the team. So no matter how "scrappy" this team is going forward, teams are going to score more against us than they did before. It certainly doesn't help that Tyler is out. As far as offense goes, Rudy averaged 19 ppg. He shot horribly, sure, but that you can't deny he didn't draw double and triple teams. That simply won't happen for anyone else on this team, not to the consistency that Gay saw every time that moron dribbled down the court and looked for his own shot.

    Those extra 18.6 shot attempts per game? Sure, 39% was terrible. But Lowry shot 42%, DeRozan 43%, Ross 41%. That's not a whole lot better and that was while Gay was getting double teamed. And the guy who benefits most from the Gay trade? Landry Fields is shooting 37% this year.
    Mat Flynn is actually pretty good, he's just not Rogers.

    Anyway, this isn't based on the Lakers game. This is based on the rediculously low assist numbers we've had this year. Plus we actually shore up the back up point guard spot with this deal and add a couple good pieces at the 3 and 4.

    I agree that moving a player for nothing almost never makes you better, but his isn't a deal where we got back a bunch of useless pieces. Every player we got back can play basketball well and most are improvements to what we have now:

    We are now significantly better at the 1, to the point where we Vasquez could take the starting point form Lowry.

    We have another great option at the 4 with Patterson. He can make threes and will be a great guy to spread the floor.

    I think we are about even at the three. You are right that Rudy drew doubles, but he had no idea how to negotiate them. We didn't actually make anything good happen off of them so they didn't actually improve anything. Now I don't think Salmon's or Fields are better than Gay, far from it. In fact, in the right team I think Gay will actually be a lot better than he is given credit for. Put him on a squad where they have good dicipline and a very rigid offense and I think he'll be a star.

    The issue is that Rudy Gay with Demar Derozan is a bad combination because neither of them pass all that well and both of them play the same kind of game. Replacing Gay with guys who play in a different area and who don't need as many touches can pnly help the offense.

    I am worried about the defense, but hopefully we can make the necessary adjustments. This is going to put a lot of pressure on Jonas to become the help defender we all hope he can be.
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  19. #15
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    We are now significantly better at the 1, to the point where we Vasquez could take the starting point form Lowry.

    We have another great option at the 4 with Patterson. He can make threes and will be a great guy to spread the floor.

    I am worried about the defense, but hopefully we can make the necessary adjustments. This is going to put a lot of pressure on Jonas to become the help defender we all hope he can be.
    Lowry is still better than Vazquez. Vasquez isn't a true starter, but he is a great back-up and good spot starter. Hopefully this team has a new PG like Exum or Smart anyway.

    I like Patterson but he's not a great option. He can fit a role.

    Defence isn't likely to change. Gay didn't defend well.

  20. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Lowry is still better than Vazquez. Vasquez isn't a true starter, but he is a great back-up and good spot starter. Hopefully this team has a new PG like Exum or Smart anyway.

    I like Patterson but he's not a great option. He can fit a role.

    Defence isn't likely to change. Gay didn't defend well.
    Rudy was actually the best defender on the team looking at Def/Rtg (unless you count Acy). Check it http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2014.html

    Vasquez is good, he is a lot like Calderon and we know how that always turned out. I think he'll thrive here and surprise a lot of people.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  21. #17
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    yeesh. always hilarious that anytime someone gets traded to toronto, no matter how bad they are, they quickly become "a great option", "a huge improvement at ___ position", etc etc etc.

    vasquez is not starter material. patterson does not spread the floor whatsoever. i understand wanting to be optimistic, but theres some very bizarre wishful thinking going on in this thread.

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  23. #18
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Rudy was actually the best defender on the team looking at Def/Rtg (unless you count Acy). Check it http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2014.html

    Vasquez is good, he is a lot like Calderon and we know how that always turned out. I think he'll thrive here and surprise a lot of people.
    The Team's DRtg didn't change with Gay on the court or on the bench. His D was passable to average and Landry Fields/Terrence Ross can both manage that at least.

  24. #19
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    What this deal does is give cap space and allows Lowry, TH and DD be traded while giving us a pletha of bodies that can fill in, are strong characters, but will inevitably lose us a lot of games

  25. #20
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    What this deal does is give cap space and allows Lowry, TH and DD be traded while giving us a pletha of bodies that can fill in, are strong characters, but will inevitably lose us a lot of games
    I think this is the problem with most raptor fan.. we want to trade everybody.. this is the cycle we have been for last 10 years.. the main guy we should have (Bosh) walked for free.. sets us back 3 years..and still recovering

    Given our draft record, we will finish outside of the Top 5.. will get a good player but he will take 2.5 years to develop... we will still be missing key pieces sitting in no man land.. If everyone thinks MU is going to work some miracle look at Denver ..after 3 years they won 50+ games witha great coach but they are still weren't a contender..good team but not a contender..

    I agree there is room for one between TH & AJ becasue I think both are great first big off the bench guys.. but we need a 1st rate big and tough 3 ball/defence SF. Keeping DD & KL is mandatory to attract any worthwhile FA..
    If most people would really step back and look around the league.. please find me a PG who is playing at KL level who will come to TO for less than $12 million... cold, more taxes and bad team?? as for DD .. after all the years of the people on the blog bitching about how good players don't want to stay here and not working hard enough to improve, and we get rid of the one guy that is really backing up his words.. then we don't derserve to have a another decent player... so what if we have cap space... No decent FA will come here .. this is a FACT.. unless we overpay just like BC did the last 7 years.. MU has really two ways to build this team draft or sign and trade for long term pieces.. who wants to wait another 5 years to make the playoffs..

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