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Thread: Colangelo Shares His Two Cents on the Gay Trade

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    bosh?
    bosh was drafted pre-BC

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    bosh was drafted pre-BC
    and also lost for nothing on his watch...why are we re-opening old wounds...we got The Warlord Messiah Ujiri now.

    sidenote: calling him the Warlord might be racist given what part of the world he hails from and what Warlord's do there.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Armchair hindsighters.... NOBODY on earth was calling Rudy Gay Average last year. You guys gotta calm the fuck down and stop turning everything into some sort of major drama. Dude didn't work out here, big whoop.
    oh please. 'NOBODY?' f'real? or do you just remember what you want to remember? speaking of armchair hindsighters...
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Colangelo was the first really good GM to come to toronto and try his ass off to make it work. He went the route of trying to win, so really, if any of you bashing him are the same guys on the "anti-tank" team, then kindly STFU

    For the rest, the wasn't great, but he tried to win, made some gambles, won a few lost a few. A very good portion of Fan based criticism of colangelo is pretty weak at best, most of the shit I read is nonsense really.

    Anyhow, water under the bridge, I wish the fellow well.
    This is true. I was pretty pro-Colangelo and an advocate of stability/patience (this franchise has had so much instability at every level for it's entire existence) right up until the last season or two, where it's become apparent how awful the roster is and how limited the prospects for improving it are without the GM being willing to admit his mistakes and blow the thing apart.

    I get the advocacy for perspective and level-headedness - at the same time, I think the emotional mood swings of the fan base (fans are really, really moody - basically bipolar) are actually part of what make being a fan fun. I'm not really pissed when I'm "pissed" as a fan. It's just sports. As a Raptors fan you have to have some fun with getting riled up and with something as awful as the prospect of a tank or transactions involving $19 million dollar players that 90% of the league realizes should never have been on your roster in the first place (according to Mark Stein etc. sources post-trade).

    If we aren't having fun with the negatives as well as the positives, all we've got is a sub .500 franchise that rarely makes the playoffs and got to the 2nd round once. Kind of depressing if I take that too seriously.

  7. #45
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    sidenote: calling him the Warlord might be racist given what part of the world he hails from and what Warlord's do there.
    Look, I don't mean to be racist here, but as a kid I was much more into hockey.

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    Quote drunkmunky wrote: View Post
    He's not wrong.
    Is Rudy Gay a talent? Yes.
    Is SAC's GM trying to increase the talent on their roster? Yes.

    The only thing I can hate about his comments is that snark little remark when he said 'rather than depleting it' which was a subtle means of criticizing the direction of the Raptors in slowly tearing down and removing every stupid move he did.
    The problem some people don't understand is that having talent in your starting lineup doesn't really mean anything if the pieces don't come together. Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, and Valanciunas were a top 10 starting lineup at the end of last season. But Gay's selfish and lackadaisical attitude towards team play shows that you can have the most talented starting lineup in the world, but if they don't play together as a team, that lineup just won't work. So just because the Kings' lineup has more talent now, doesn't mean that they will be a better team. I'm pretty sure we saw that when we had Gay...

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Armchair hindsighters.... NOBODY on earth was calling Rudy Gay Average last year. You guys gotta calm the fuck down and stop turning everything into some sort of major drama. Dude didn't work out here, big whoop.
    While I never accused Rudy of being 'average', I was against the trade before it happened, arguing that Demar is a cheaper, younger version of Rudy, who in 2 years time will be able to do the exact same things.
    However I obviously didn't think he'd be quite this brutal this season; I was even optimistic enough coming into the season, holding out hope for an All-Star appearance.

    Alas, as you said, it simply didn't work out, and with this trade we gain something far more valuable than 18 points on 18 shots.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I think I was for the Rudy Gay trade. I remember being pretty excited about it. As a human being I reserve the right to be a fierce hypocrite whenever it suits me.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Armchair hindsighters.... NOBODY on earth was calling Rudy Gay Average last year. You guys gotta calm the fuck down and stop turning everything into some sort of major drama. Dude didn't work out here, big whoop.
    There were plenty of folks calling Rudy (analytically) average last year. Felt like the forums were split 50/50 when the deal was first announced.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    I haven't forgotten. BC impressed with his ability to "undo" his mistakes. Crazy thing was he spent essentially his entire time here undoing mistakes - virtually all his biggest transactions turned into mistakes that needed undoing. Hence the complete lack of progress over his tenure.

    He also spent far too freely. By no means did I dislike all his moves and I'm definitely exaggerating a bit now (isn't that what the internet's for?), but one very regular criticism was that almost every contract he handed out was overpriced. Add that up over a few seasons and you have a low-ceiling, capped out treadmill roster. Next to a completely dysfunctional franchise (ex. Bobcats), it's about as bad a situation as an NBA team can be in.
    I don't think making a mistake on top of another mistake qualifies as undoing. Trading Turkoglu for Barbosa isn't exactly "fixing" anything, it's just a massive waste of time. Same with Kapono/Evans, or signing Jack and then trading him for Bayless. Nothing was ever fixed in any of his transactions, only newer and different problems were created.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    I don't think making a mistake on top of another mistake qualifies as undoing. Trading Turkoglu for Barbosa isn't exactly "fixing" anything, it's just a massive waste of time. Same with Kapono/Evans, or signing Jack and then trading him for Bayless. Nothing was ever fixed in any of his transactions, only newer and different problems were created.
    One might say shorter, cheaper problems were created.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Armchair hindsighters.... NOBODY on earth was calling Rudy Gay Average last year. You guys gotta calm the fuck down and stop turning everything into some sort of major drama. Dude didn't work out here, big whoop.
    Here's what I said when the trade was reportedly about to go down:

    Do you think it's a coincidence that shortly after John Hollinger (the NBA's foremost expert on player efficiency and advanced metrics) was hired by the Grizzlies front office that they began trying to dump Rudy Gay to seemingly anyone in the league who would listen? That alone should be a huge red flag! Gay is an overrated player and a vastly overpaid one. Despite having all of the physical tools to be a great defensive player, he has never shown the ability to do so. Expecting him to magically become inspired on the defensive end 7 years into his career (for a non-playoff team no less!) is as crazy as expecting Bargnani to do it. If he can't give 100% for one of the handful of teams that have a shot at a title this season, I don't expect him to do it for a lottery team.

    Why so many Raptors fans are willing to take him off the Grizzlies hands is beyond me, especially when it's at the expense of young prospects, future draft picks, salary cap flexibility, or in Derozan's case - a similarly productive player this season who's much younger AND cheaper.

    He is a TERRIBLE contract. Absolutely terrible. Paying max money for non all-star players is practically chapter one in the "How to get stuck in the NBA's no man's land" handbook. And wasn't the consensus from Colangelo (and plenty of posters on this board) that maxing out Bosh would have been a bad idea? Now we want to spend multiple assets just to have the right to give more money to a lesser player? Good grief!

  17. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    So I hate to say I told you so (joking! I love saying that), but I told you so.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Armchair hindsighters.... NOBODY on earth was calling Rudy Gay Average last year. You guys gotta calm the fuck down and stop turning everything into some sort of major drama. Dude didn't work out here, big whoop.
    There were many people criticizing the contract that Gay got from Memphis before it was even signed. Pointing out the holes in his game is not a new thing.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    One meme I recall at the time of the trade was along the lines of the Memphis big men making it tougher for Gay to slash because of the lack of space, or something to that effect. But that was just an excuse. There was no evidence Gay would be a more successful slasher with the Raps. Gay is just an overhyped tweener, too big for a 3, too small for a 4. Not really good at anything. His ridiculous contract is a sign of the hype that follows him around to this day.

    I'd really, really like to know what criteria Colangelo is using to judge Gay's talent. I think that would be a fascinating discussion, if he'd consent to it. He seems to gravitate towards these volume shooters, and I'd like to know why.
    It's clearly the infamous "caliper test", which I'm assuming amounts to nothing more than closing eyes and trying to touch one's nose.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  22. #56
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's clearly the infamous "caliper test", which I'm assuming amounts to nothing more than closing eyes and trying to touch one's nose.
    *Rudy Gay closes eyes and touches chin.* "Shit!"
    Colangelo: "Shhhh, just do it again, quick. Nobody saw that."
    *Rudy Gay closes eyes and pokes self in eye.* "Son of a bitch!"
    Colangelo: "Aaannddd, we're gonna mark that as a 10/10. Nice work, Rudy."
    Gay: "I'm gonna get lasik in the summer. I'll be good to go after that."
    Trainer: "Your eyes were closed."
    Colangelo: "Shut up. Your fired."
    *Rudy Gay shuffles towards the door.*
    Colangelo: "No! Rudy! Not you! I've been waiting for you since 2006! Since 2006! Come back, Rudy!"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    BC laments on the Gay trade is laughable. Besides, trading for a brand name that produced squat means nothing. In New York, a case for the trade for Carmelo is being bandied about. Read here:

    http://nymag.com/news/sports/games/k...12/index1.html
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Colangelo was the first really good GM to come to toronto and try his ass off to make it work. He went the route of trying to win, so really, if any of you bashing him are the same guys on the "anti-tank" team, then kindly STFU

    For the rest, the wasn't great, but he tried to win, made some gambles, won a few lost a few. A very good portion of Fan based criticism of colangelo is pretty weak at best, most of the shit I read is nonsense really.

    Anyhow, water under the bridge, I wish the fellow well.
    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Armchair hindsighters.... NOBODY on earth was calling Rudy Gay Average last year. You guys gotta calm the fuck down and stop turning everything into some sort of major drama. Dude didn't work out here, big whoop.
    Even though Craig is a bit of an intolerance at times. I agree with these posts.

    The armchair hindsights and the "Messiah" Ujiri comments are getting really annoying. It's like Anthopolous with The Jays everyone was praising him and now look..what exactly has he achieved in the most important aspect of the game W/L?

    Not a god damn thing.

    Colangelo was good at dumping big contracts, too.

    Honestly, the flip flop on this board is annoying as hell. Pick a side and stick with it.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Honestly, the flip flop on this board is annoying as hell. Pick a side and stick with it.
    Gotta adjust your opinions as new evidence becomes available. It's not selling out, or being a flip-flopper. It's rational thought
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    The armchair hindsights and the "Messiah" Ujiri comments are getting really annoying. It's like Anthopolous with The Jays everyone was praising him and now look..what exactly has he achieved in the most important aspect of the game W/L?

    Not a god damn thing.

    Colangelo was good at dumping big contracts, too.

    Honestly, the flip flop on this board is annoying as hell. Pick a side and stick with it.
    I don't post much, but I have no problem admitting I was excited about Rudy. Of course, I assumed that meant one or both of our other volume shooters were on the way out and there was some grand plan to remake the team. BC lost a lot of fans with his continued devotion to Bargs and his willingness to trade away 1st rounders, never believing that his team would be bad enough to get a high pick. He made some bad, desperate gambles, but I give him full points on Garbajosa and Amir and few of his other moves. Rather than flip flop, it was more like a gradual loss of faith.

    The "Messiah" Ujiri attitude is based on what he did in Denver (i.e. too many good deals to be just luck) and the fact that Bargs and Rudy looked impossible to move without taking on long-term contracts.

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