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Thread: Has there ever been a team with more PG Controversy?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    17 games is not patient lol


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    It is compared to tearing it down in the summer, which is what some wanted. Also most people around here (not sure if you're included) expected change to start at 20-25 games at the latest. They had played 18 games and were 6-12.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It is compared to tearing it down in the summer, which is what some wanted. Also most people around here (not sure if you're included) expected change to start at 20-25 games at the latest. They had played 18 games and were 6-12.
    And from what Masai said, the opportunity just came along. They pretty much knew they had to get rid of Gay because of the contract thing.

  3. #23
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    And from what Masai said, the opportunity just came along. They pretty much knew they had to get rid of Gay because of the contract thing.
    Right. Basically he wanted a deal with more usable/movable pieces than the rumoured Detroit offer of CV and Stuckey. Stuckey is a below average bench scorer. CV is essentially useless. They are movable as contracts because they're expiring, but undesirable pieces that you actually won't get good return for on their own. And even as expiring contracts, the piece you attach them to (since they have no on-court value) would have to be very desirable to the other team, making it a piece you likely don't want to give up.

    Vasquez is certainly serviceable. A very good backup or average starter who excels as a pass-first PG so a team could really want him for fit reasons. Patterson is young, cheap, and while average or below average as a PF, he brings that youth, a cheap contract, a jumper and a good attitude. Salmons is a wildcard. If he plays well in Toronto there could be interest, since he's one of those guys that always tends to play better after getting traded. Hayes is probably the most useless and undesirable because his contract is fairly big for a limited F/C with poor height.

    Now those guys may need to be packaged as well, but as smaller pieces that might be more useful, it may give you more opportunity to make changes while hanging on to the pieces you really want. Getting CV and Stuckey would be the Utah route (Jefferson/Biedrins)...The obvious tank route of "we don't care if guys on our roster have little-to-no on-court value and nobody else wants them because we're trying to suck as much as possible."

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    17 games is not patient lol


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    17 games? He's traded away two contracts in 6 months. He said they'd spend 45 days to evaluate the roster to start this season. Then they traded Gay after 40 days. So I guess you're right on that one - clearly he was in a bit of a rush to dump Rudy Gay. Shoulda waited the extra 5 days.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I like how people assume "if" we tank this year that will tank next year as well. Masai doesn't strike me as that patient. Seeing that we're not sure that we're taking this year. We should make assumptions about the next.
    If we tear it down properly this year, then next year we wont have to tank, but will be naturally not very good as we will be focusing on developing players. Look at OKC, they drafted the best possible player 3 years in a row and it still took a few years before they were out of the bottom 5. If you think drafting anyone in 2014 will make this team a playoff team next year then you are sorely wrong about the talent we currently have. 2 year minimum picking in the top 10

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Jameer Nelson puts up similar numbers. Point is, if we don't draft Smart/Exum, then there are players out there to fill in. We aren't competing next year anyway so it won't really matter who
    And Jameer Nelson has been part of both a competetive team and now a tanking team. My point is that if it isn't broke then don't fix it. The real problem on this team is in my opinion and in order:

    SG - Love DeMar, but he is a deeply flawed player. Great that he's shooting better but the rest of the numbers across the board are weak. Most importantly unless you have an elite level SF which is rare, you absolutely MUST have a SG that can handle the ball and create. If you don't it's way too easy to force the ball out of Lowry's hands and your ofense is dead at that point.

    PF - We need someone worthy of being a starter at that position

    SF - If DeMar is the future at SG, then you absolutely have to have an elite level SF whom can create and handle the ball

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    And Jameer Nelson has been part of both a competetive team and now a tanking team. My point is that if it isn't broke then don't fix it. The real problem on this team is in my opinion and in order:

    SG - Love DeMar, but he is a deeply flawed player. Great that he's shooting better but the rest of the numbers across the board are weak. Most importantly unless you have an elite level SF which is rare, you absolutely MUST have a SG that can handle the ball and create. If you don't it's way too easy to force the ball out of Lowry's hands and your ofense is dead at that point.

    PF - We need someone worthy of being a starter at that position

    SF - If DeMar is the future at SG, then you absolutely have to have an elite level SF whom can create and handle the ball
    The team is very broke, and fixing it doesn't mean paying KL $10M, it means finding quality contracts and/or stud prospects.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    The team is very broke, and fixing it doesn't mean paying KL $10M, it means finding quality contracts and/or stud prospects.
    My original post to Calgary Fan did say "for the right price".

    And yes, the team is very broke which is why we should be trying to fix the parts that are broken, not the parts that are working.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    My original post to Calgary Fan did say "for the right price".

    And yes, the team is very broke which is why we should be trying to fix the parts that are broken, not the parts that are working.
    2 part honest question for you:

    1. What is the right price for you to re-sign Lowry?

    2. What price do you expect Lowry to actually be willing to accept (from any team including the Raps)?

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    I like how people assume "if" we tank this year that will tank next year as well. Masai doesn't strike me as that patient. Seeing that we're not sure that we're taking this year. We should make assumptions about the next.
    No, but it's not unfair to assume that if you tank this year you will just be plain BAD next year. If you gut your team to get a high draft pick it will take more than 1 year to fix that.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    2 part honest question for you:

    1. What is the right price for you to re-sign Lowry?

    2. What price do you expect Lowry to actually be willing to accept (from any team including the Raps)?
    1. I don't know what the going rate for PG's at KL's level are, but considering Curry makes under $10M this year it's safe to say KL can't demand that much. Probably something in the neighbourhood of $7M (low end) to $8M (high end)?

    2. Taking a quick glance at the teams out there whom would offer Lowry a starting PG spot as well as market value? Maybe the Lakers if they waive Nash, or he isn't able to return from injury. But they are so over the cap that they aren't going to offer Lowry anything near market value. I think Toronto is in a great position to low ball Lowry because they can offer him a starting spot, and have the cap space.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    1. I don't know what the going rate for PG's at KL's level are, but considering Curry makes under $10M this year it's safe to say KL can't demand that much. Probably something in the neighbourhood of $7M (low end) to $8M (high end)?

    2. Taking a quick glance at the teams out there whom would offer Lowry a starting PG spot as well as market value? Maybe the Lakers if they waive Nash, or he isn't able to return from injury. But they are so over the cap that they aren't going to offer Lowry anything near market value. I think Toronto is in a great position to low ball Lowry because they can offer him a starting spot, and have the cap space.
    If you can re-sign KL for $7M for 3-4 years, then I agree you do it because it isn't so much that he can't be moved down the road.

    I think KL's demands will likely start at $10M which would be a Top 10 PG salary. He likely signs for somewhere between $8.5M -$9.5M which is probably too much for a rebuilding team to give a 28 yr old scoring PG.

  13. #33
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Theirs a controversy? I'm pretty sure it's Lowry's job. Without question


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    http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/1...20RaptorsGrid1 was only quoting based on this write up.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Agree. $10M is too much for Lowry. I think the ace in Toronto's pocket when/if they negotiate with him is the ability to offer a starting role. He is not likely to find another team in free agency where he can be a starter.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Agree. $10M is too much for Lowry. I think the ace in Toronto's pocket when/if they negotiate with him is the ability to offer a starting role. He is not likely to find another team in free agency where he can be a starter.
    But what is better for this team, Lowry staying the year, guiding us to the 9th pick and staying on as the starter on a rebuilding team or moving Lowry, nabbing a top 5 pick and possibly rolling out Dante Exum as the franchise PG for the next 10 years, but with a stop-gap PG for a year or two to allow Exum to acclimatize? Since PG is a fairly deep position in the NBA (hence the lack of starting roles for KL) we could likely grab one on the cheap. Houston has Aaron Brooks as their 3rd PG, what would that cost? Conditional 2nd rounder?

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I like how people assume "if" we tank this year that will tank next year as well. Masai doesn't strike me as that patient. Seeing that we're not sure that we're taking this year. We should make assumptions about the next.


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    I seem to remember a Masai quote "You can't teach winning by losing"

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    I seem to remember a Masai quote "You can't teach winning by losing"
    You also can't teach talent
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    You also can't teach talent
    well good luck trying to keep this "talent" together, because when it comes time to re-sign all of them to big contracts, say hello to being capped out again. Going the "well balanced" team route will be better for our cap situation.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    I'd offer Lowry 3.5 for 3 years.

    He can walk otherwise

  20. #40
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    well good luck trying to keep this "talent" together, because when it comes time to re-sign all of them to big contracts, say hello to being capped out again. Going the "well balanced" team route will be better for our cap situation.
    We don't really have to worry about re-signing them today though, that is years down the road and, if done correctly, we will be winning and considered an up and coming team by then, making all of your arguments moot.

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