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Thread: Can all this tank talk seroiusly hurt Toronto Raptor's fanbase and attendance?

  1. #1
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    Default Can all this tank talk seroiusly hurt Toronto Raptor's fanbase and attendance?

    I have been a die hard Raptor's fan since the beginning.
    I follow Raptors Republic daily and enjoy much of the discussion.
    However all this tank talk is starting to wear on me..... to the point ...that Raptor's management intends to weaken the team to afford a chance for a top lottery pick.


    My family and I make a trip to Toronto as often as humanly possible often paying in excess of a $1000. on tickets for the best seats that are available. However, honestly I do not intend to spend this money this year with the idea that Toronto is in it to lose !
    I am afraid my interest in the team is rapidly declining. I have stopped watching games on TV for the first time that I can recall.

    The sad part is I am probably not the only one that feels this way.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Absolutely with you on not spending the money on tics now. But you will be sooooooooo happy in a couple years when you get to see good basketball when you go to the ACC, and not just from the opponents.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I understand the way you feel. I love the game of basketball and find losing purpose is disrespectful in so many ways. Unfortunately raptors our the only team I can ever cheer for. I person can't see how some of the posters here are willing to go a whole decade to be pack in the post season.


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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Yeah it'll all be worth it if done properly. Young studs are very exciting to watch play, even before they're playoff worthy

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Fairweather fans will only support the team when they are winning, so being a treadmill team or rebuilding will lose them in the short-term.

    Hardcore fans understand the truth about this team and the realities of the NBA, so are likely more willing to embrace a true rebuild (which the team should have done from the moment Bosh didn't re-sign before his final season and only did for a single season before being unnecessarily accelerated in an attempt to save BC's job).

    The bottom line is that this Raptors team is not good and won't be anytime soon, without a massive overhaul. Given the significant talent available in the 2014 draft and the fact that Toronto has 2 picks in the 2016 draft, I expect MU is looking at a 3-year rebuilding plan. Year 1 is this season, where the priority is to undo BC's mess, clear cap space and acquire assets (ie: prospects & draft picks). The rebuild begins this offseason, starting with the loaded 2014 draft (pro-tankers never viewed the 2014 draft as the be-all and end-all of any tanking/rebuilding strategy, but rather just one major piece of the much bigger team-building process).

    I am more excited in the wake of the Gay trade than I have been since the drafting of Valanciunas (and the false assumption that the following season would be an all-out tank while JV played in Europe - thanks BC), because I have faith in MU and believe he is embarking on a true rebuild to remake my beloved Raptors into perennial contenders. It will likely get painful the rest of this season, but the next couple seasons will be a joy to watch, as truly talented players develop before our eyes. As a fan, I'd love nothing better than watching MU build a young, talented core over the next 2.5 seasons, that will grow together over the following 5-7 seasons (at least)!
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 05:16 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Also this kind of apathy was already growing. They couldn't even sell out Miami games. Think of that. People didn't want to pay to see LeBron James, probably the biggest ticket draw in the league. They were well on pace to losing fan support before signs that they could be tanking. 2-3 more years on the treadmill and who knows how bad it would get? Probably much worse than 2-3 years in the crapper (at most I think) after which the team should hopefully be on the right track to be good and sustainable.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star consmap's Avatar
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    The tanking portion could cause the fanbase and attendance to diminish.
    The winning that comes after the tank could cure that immediately.

    EDIT: Here's a quote from Skyrim that can help describe tanking:

    "Suffer the winter's cold wind, for it bears aloft next summer's seed."
    Last edited by consmap; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 05:41 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Where's peanutwoozle when you need him? Now THIS is the definition of fairweather fan.

    Just gotta be patient man. I trust Masai. I'm 17 now, so I'll be in my prime years when we finally start becoming competitive.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    One could also look at it like a Forest Fire... some of the most beautiful and rare Flowers, Plants and Trees can only grow if they are exposed to the extreme heat of the fire and the open environment that is born from massive devastation.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    One could also look at it like a Forest Fire... some of the most beautiful and rare Flowers, Plants and Trees can only grow if they are exposed to the extreme heat of the fire and the open environment that is born from massive devastation.
    That is some real deep sh!t man.

    lol
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Raptorfanatic wrote: View Post
    I have been a die hard Raptor's fan since the beginning.
    I follow Raptors Republic daily and enjoy much of the discussion.
    However all this tank talk is starting to wear on me..... to the point ...that Raptor's management intends to weaken the team to afford a chance for a top lottery pick.


    My family and I make a trip to Toronto as often as humanly possible often paying in excess of a $1000. on tickets for the best seats that are available. However, honestly I do not intend to spend this money this year with the idea that Toronto is in it to lose !
    I am afraid my interest in the team is rapidly declining. I have stopped watching games on TV for the first time that I can recall.

    The sad part is I am probably not the only one that feels this way.
    With all due respect, you don't really believe that Raptor management polled the fan base before deciding that a "tank" was in order? Fact be known they have never admitted that this this their express strategy. What you see here and possibly other venues are posters reading the tea leaves using the minutest expressions word or deed (like trades) to draw conclusions.

    There are many Raptor fans who fully support a rebuilding or transformation of this team because of the belief that as constituted it shall not be successful in any sustainable way to be at least a contender for deep runs into the playoffs. I fail to grasp why wanting a team which is not a perrenial laughing stock is a negative. I am sure you appreciate that in order to dismantle a team per the CBA rules is a complex and time consuming matter which in probability will involve taking some steps back. One can hope that thru this process entertaining basketball can still be enjoyed if not winning basketball. I would urge viewing this journey as an interesting exercise and ultimately a successful one under the new management. That is my hope.
    Last edited by Bendit; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 06:04 PM.

  14. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    It comes down to do you trust Masai and Leiweke. Having a brief look at their resume I can say that I do. Having a look at what they have assembled in the front office and the moves Masai has made to date confirms my belief in them. I am confident that they have a plan, and although I prefer the tank route, I realize that Masai and Leiweke will choose the proper direction as they see fit.

    This thread does raise an interesting point though. Lets just say the raptors aren't tanking and this whole narrative around the tank is just a combination of wishful thinking of fans persuaded by beat writers further. If that is the case and that narrative is leading to the attendance issue we are seeing, I would expect that it would be addressed in the short term. If we're going to be competitive this year they're going to make a move soon to show that to get attendance levels back up.

    Dec 15 is approaching quickly expect changes regardless of our course...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    I think we will see a drop. I go to a bunch of games and if they do this right (ie no Alan Anderson minutes), I'll enjoy watching it. But I'm a sadistic fan. Most people aren't.

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    Firstly, there's a reason Masai and Leiweke want Wiggins so bad. It's not just about his being a potential superstar: it's about ticket sales and TV ratings. Andrew Wiggins on the Toronto Raptors means a season of sellout games. It means tripling TV ratings overnight. If the team gets BETTER with Wiggins playing (and it should), you're looking at the Vince Carter effect all over again, except this time so much more important and special. The casual fanbase gets excited about Jamaal Magloire being a consultant, that's how much being Canadian matters to Canadians.

    Second: we've had years of being just generally shitty without a purpose and the fanbase has mostly stuck despite us being on a road to nowhere. One or two more years is not going to kill the franchise, especially if you're doing it with a direction in mind.

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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Where's peanutwoozle when you need him? Now THIS is the definition of fairweather fan.

    Just gotta be patient man. I trust Masai. I'm 17 now, so I'll be in my prime years when we finally start becoming competitive.
    I might be pushin' daisies.

  19. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star Sig's Avatar
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    Maybe temporarily.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I'm willing to bet that the declining fanbase has less to do with "tanking" discussions, and more to do with sucking for the past 6 years.

    And some fans actually want to continue the "let's just try and squeeze into the 8th seed" plan that is directly responsible for the past 6 years. Unreal.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm willing to bet that the declining fanbase has less to do with "tanking" discussions, and more to do with sucking for the past 6 years.

    And some fans actually want to continue the "let's just try and squeeze into the 8th seed" plan that is directly responsible for the past 6 years. Unreal.
    Reminds me of the great Simpsons quote from Kang

    "We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom."


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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Reminds me of the great Simpsons quote from Kang

    "We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom."
    lol

    "We are merely exchanging long protein strings. If you can think of a simpler way, I'd like to hear it."
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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I think what's been pretty bad this year are the tv numbers. I read something somewhere but more people are watching figure skating and curling over basketball. It has been really bad.

    Bryan was great at getting the casual fan base excited by the moves he made (getting Jay Triano, Euro ball, going after Nash, signing Hedo, trading for Gay, etc).. however he also never created a team that was any good for the long haul.

    As MU keeps saying in his interviews.. it's easy to put together a playoff team. It's easy to get short term success. That's great for viewership for that year but it's not sustaining. I personally would love the Raptors to be relevant again, but I also see that it needs to finally go through a proper rebuild. Once the rebuild is done well I think the Raptors will become a team that most people will be talking about on a regular basis.

    MLSE has enough in the bank to keep the Raptors a float while the rebuild is happening. TL seems to be on board and he's the guy running the show in the background. If MLSE didn't like the tv numbers or the number of tickets sold, then I'm sure we'd be seeing different moves from MU by now.

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