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What if tanking is not the goal?

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  • What if tanking is not the goal?

    Just had a bit of a thought this morning. The Raptors are widely assumed to be tanking for the purposes of having a high draft pick in a loaded draft lottery. I'm not saying that's not true, but I think there may be another plan in the works.

    What we know: the Rudy Gay and Andrea Bargnani trades, if nothing else, have given the Raptors a tremendous amount of financial flexibility, but in all honesty, neither trade seems to have made them any worse. If anything, they stand to be better off for them. They now have a number of packageable assets in the form of expiring contracts and good value players (Lowry, Johnson, maybe even Vazquez in the right deal). They now have a much deeper roster, and while it isn't a very good roster as constructed, they're really not as far from a top tier team as we would believe (assuming that a solid coach comes in to oversee the whole operation). 1-2 players could make all the difference.

    Masai Ujiri is quoted as saying that the Raptors won't be in the middle of the standings. But a high draft pick won't jump the Raptors up to respectability right away, even if it is Wiggins or any other of the top prep stars. Besides, as things stand now, we can get Wiggins when his rookie contract expires.

    If the Raps end up with a top pick this year, I think that would be a fortunate side-effect, but not the ultimate goal. I think the ultimate goal is...LeBron James.

    As currently comprised, the Raptors would present a very intriguing opportunity for LeBron James. The Heat are an aging roster on the downside of their potential. Of all the teams with the resources to sign LeBron should he choose early termination, the Raps would have one of the best rosters. A starting lineup of Valanciunas, James, Johnson, Derozan and a warm body all of a sudden becomes tremendously solid. James is a fan of Toronto and could be sold on representing a country. He also knows what kind of crowds Toronto had in the Carter/McGrady days and would thrive in that environment. The Raps could also promote their future financial flexibility, even after signing James, as their only long-term assets would be James, Derozan, Steve Novak, and Valanciunas and Ross's rookie deals, as a team positioned to compete for years to come.

    So, the more this team wins, the more that a top-tier free agent like James could be convinced that the supporting pieces are here to create an instant winner. The more the team loses, the closer they get to top pick. With both the roster and financial flexibility that Ujiri has given this team in such a short time, it seems as though both options are possible.

    As long as Casey is not coaching the team next year, I really like this team's situation going forward.

  • #2
    I don't even know how to respond to this.

    Was this post made tongue in cheek?
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

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    • #3
      There is no way lebron is going to toronto
      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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      • #4
        I read the first half of the post, nodding along with a lot of what you were saying.

        Then you dropped the L word and I zoned out, sorry.

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        • #5
          Er... maybe not Lebron, but I see where you're coming from. If we keep stockpiling good assets then yeah, we could potentially get an elite talent via trade if the right deal comes along.
          Lebron does like Toronto though, but not because of your reasons. He likes coming here because he dominates us every time we play him.
          OG is our king

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          • #6
            can we check to see if this new poster isn't just another troll/peanutwoozle/double account?

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            • #7
              I was ok with all what you said, until I read the LBJ part (wearing my LBJ shirt right now). But I don't think this is as much crazy as some seem to think, even though I'm not convinced that LeBron would come here (that would be awesome though). Although, I agree with you in the sense that I'm not sure that Ujiri's goal is to tank. Both trades he did up to date, those are not trades to make us worse, at all. Yesterday he was about to trade Lowry for Felton and MWP. To me, this trade is not making us worse at all, giving us even more depth. Just look at this:

              Valanciunas/Hansbrough/Hayes
              Johnson/Patterson/Novak
              DeRozan/Artest/Fields
              Ross/Salmons/Stone
              Vasquez/Felton/Buycks

              Sorry guys, but in the East, whether you like it or not, that's clearly a playoff team.

              As long as we keep DeMar, IMO we are not tanking, that's for sure.

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              • #8
                And I thought these forums were crazy while Bargs was here....

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                • #9
                  http://www.sbnation.com/college-bask...draft-comments

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                  • #10
                    consmap wrote: View Post
                    Er... maybe not Lebron, but I see where you're coming from. If we keep stockpiling good assets then yeah, we could potentially get an elite talent via trade if the right deal comes along.
                    Lebron does like Toronto though, but not because of your reasons. He likes coming here because he dominates us every time we play him.
                    He has come up here for film festivals and things like that in the past as well.

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                    • #11
                      Pretty much why I've been wary about the trade everyone to lose idea. Mysterious injuries? Bad player rotations? I'm okay with that.

                      Right now Arizona is #1 in the NCAA and even they are seriously flawed. Kansas has 2 1st round picks and though Wiggins has played well, he can't carry a team at the College level. Duke is deeper, are playing better but their draft picks are not as polished as was earlier thought.

                      The only NCAA team who seems to be a finished product is Michigan State, and they're flawed too -- though a couple of those vets will get NBA looks. This is definitely going to be a deep draft, but right now I'm seeing a lot of future stars -- not superstars (not that that's a bad thing this early).

                      I like what Philly is doing, there stud rookie is in and out of the rotation, their pick won't play this season, their other young assets believe in each other and are building a winning foundation even though they are losing games. Everyone else is selling quality, or are just bad.

                      That's how you do it Philly -- bravo.

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                      • #12
                        lol
                        Twitter - @thekid_it

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                        • #13
                          I'm not saying the Raptors are going to get LeBron, but I don't think anyone can deny that if he were to invoke the early termination of his contract, the Raptors would be one of the only teams with the combination of cap space to sign him, complimentary players, and ongoing flexibility to add more key pieces.

                          And if Lebron isn't available? Drew Bledsoe would be another great target that would look good on this team, though his RFA situation would make him hard to sign.

                          The point of the thread is that this team is set up to succeed in a number of different ways - as things stand, they can tank for a pick, they can make a splash in the free agent market, or they can look for assets via trade and have a number of interesting pieces that can be mixed and matched together to make any number of scenarios happen.

                          Is LeBron James in Toronto realistic? Probably not. Does that mean that Ujiri shouldn't try? Of course not.

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                          • #14
                            Don Carlos wrote: View Post
                            I'm not saying the Raptors are going to get LeBron, but I don't think anyone can deny that if he were to invoke the early termination of his contract, the Raptors would be one of the only teams with the combination of cap space to sign him, complimentary players, and ongoing flexibility to add more key pieces.

                            And if Lebron isn't available? Drew Bledsoe would be another great target that would look good on this team, though his RFA situation would make him hard to sign.

                            The point of the thread is that this team is set up to succeed in a number of different ways - as things stand, they can tank for a pick, they can make a splash in the free agent market, or they can look for assets via trade and have a number of interesting pieces that can be mixed and matched together to make any number of scenarios happen.

                            Is LeBron James in Toronto realistic? Probably not. Does that mean that Ujiri shouldn't try? Of course not.
                            I'm not sure a retired 41 year old NFL QB is going to make an impact in the NBA.

                            I think your last paragraph shows you are suffering from Colangelitis. You need to be patient. If you start rushing or accelerating the rebuild you're only going to put yourself back on that treadmill. Whether you want to go tank route (OKC), build through draft (IND), asset accumulation (HOU), all methods took about 4-5 years. Ujiri is just starting. It is going to be a few more years yet.

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                            • #15
                              I think being stuck in the middle is not all so bad. the only thing that made it look so bad in raptors past history is the fact that Colangelo did not draft good. if you look at indiana, most of their picks are late lottery to mid-late first round. You could even get lucky in the second round like Indi did with Lance.

                              Colangelo had his fair share of lottery picks with only like 2 or so being above average. I think Ujiri should try and form a winning culture here and just scout and draft correctly when it comes down to it.

                              I think its better for a rookie picked 17th for example to come into an organization that got eliminated 1st round in the playoff than someone picked top 4 going to a team like Sacramento or Utah. SOMETIMES prospects need to learn under the wings of some players that are better than them.

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