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Thread: What's your price on Amir?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Default What's your price on Amir?

    Was reading Chad Ford's "tank rank" and came across this that i found interesting.

    Rudy Gay's absence hasn't had the tanking effect GM Masai Ujiri had hoped for. In fact, the Raptors are 3-1 since the trade. That's why Ujiri is out working hard to move more veterans like Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan. Lowry should be pretty easy to move. DeRozan will be tougher.

    GMs are even more interested in trying to pry away Jonas Valanciunas and Amir Johnson, I'm told. Valanciunas is virtually untouchable and it would take a pretty high draft pick to pry away Johnson, who is playing the best ball of his career right now (averaging 20 points and 9 rebounds in his past five games).
    I figured GM's would want Amir, tho i felt he was one of those players who's value is way higher than he'll most likely go for. Fact is though, Amir is arguably our best player. I'll let you digest that for a second.

    With Lowry on his way out (it's happening sooner than later) and DD probably getting traded too (i'm guessing around trade deadline) you're looking at a team that's going to run P&R nonstop with Amir and JV. Thing is, it turns out Amir is pretty fantastic at it. He's an excellent defender, he runs the floor and as we've seen, turns out he's actually a solid offensive player when he's not taking 3s. He's also only 26.

    I know, i know, i thought he was older too. Up until today i was pretty sold on the idea of trading him, but is his real worth in keeping around for when we're a playoff team in 2-3 years? Before, i figured by the time we'd be decent he' d be getting over the hill, so it's better to trade him now to get maximum return and so he can go and win somewhere. It's only fair to a guy who's been the mr toronto raptor since JYD left.

    So i guess what i'm wondering is do you think Amir's a piece to move forward with, like JV? Or should we trade him now while we could potentially get a pretty decent draft pick?
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Was reading Chad Ford's "tank rank" and came across this that i found interesting.



    I figured GM's would want Amir, tho i felt he was one of those players who's value is way higher than he'll most likely go for. Fact is though, Amir is arguably our best player. I'll let you digest that for a second.

    With Lowry on his way out (it's happening sooner than later) and DD probably getting traded too (i'm guessing around trade deadline) you're looking at a team that's going to run P&R nonstop with Amir and JV. Thing is, it turns out Amir is pretty fantastic at it. He's an excellent defender, he runs the floor and as we've seen, turns out he's actually a solid offensive player when he's not taking 3s. He's also only 26.

    I know, i know, i thought he was older too. Up until today i was pretty sold on the idea of trading him, but is his real worth in keeping around for when we're a playoff team in 2-3 years? Before, i figured by the time we'd be decent he' d be getting over the hill, so it's better to trade him now to get maximum return and so he can go and win somewhere. It's only fair to a guy who's been the mr toronto raptor since JYD left.

    So i guess what i'm wondering is do you think Amir's a piece to move forward with, like JV? Or should we trade him now while we could potentially get a pretty decent draft pick?
    He'll be a serious vet presence in a few years. Unfortunately one with no playoff experience! :P

    Personally, I lump Amir in the same boat as DD. The kind of guy who I'd like to see us hang onto, but if a great offer turns up, take it.

    Something like a top 12 draft pick, or a few >16 picks in upcoming years.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star consmap's Avatar
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    For me I'd trade away Amir for a top 10 pick.
    But I'd rather keep him forever and ever.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    The short answer is simple, You don't trade Amir.

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    My price on Amir is that the return i get on dealing him has more long-term value to the Raptors than he does.

    This should be how every trade is negotiated imo.

    So for example, no you don't trade him just to potentially move up 2 spots in the lottery odds.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I don't know what his price is but it BETTER be damn high to let him go. I was repping Amir back when Matt52 was still on team Bargnani.

    Amir is a dilly-of-a-pickle. It's my stated position that a GM should always try to win any trade (by increasing the value/talent ratio of the team) however, Amir's contract is soo good and he such an impact player it's almost impossible to trade him and win the deal. Unfortunately, if you think the raps are too talented to get a top pick but too weak to make a serious playoff run, you pretty much have to trade him, because he gets you wins.

    I don't think anyone picked after the top 20 is going to have a chance to reach the production amir's at right now. So wouldn't trade him for a second rounder.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    He's a mid 20 something double double machine, and a great team guy.

    meh, price for me would have to be significant. i think he's close to all star when used right.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Unfortunately, if you think the raps are too talented to get a top pick but too weak to make a serious playoff run, you pretty much have to trade him, because he gets you wins.
    This is where I disagree. Amir doesn't do anything himself, he needs to be surrounded with smart players. Surround him with young guys who are a bit stupid and he will be fine. He isn't a game breaker, for me, he is a Horace Grant.

    You can lose this year and still keep amir.

    But the best way would have been to lose lowry, and NOT to have grabbed Vasquez

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    The thing with Amir is that he doesn't have an elite skill. He's not an elite scorer, or passer, or defender. I'd say is "pretty good" in multiple areas, which makes him a solid piece to any rotation.

    But when GMs are evaluating their rosters, I'm assuming they identify specific needs (like 3pt shooting, shot blocking, etc.). That is, they look for specialty players who are elite at something. Based on this, I could see Amir being portrayed as less valuable than he actually is.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Amir's worth more than a top 10 to me. Still too much of a gamble in #5-10 - plenty of picks in that range will not become as effective as Amir. And he's still getting better, which is crazy. Evidently his capable of extending his range (not that I really want him away from the basket) as well as being the second best finisher in the league at the rim, next to LeBron James.

    Amir is underrated, still, and on a great contract. I'd want a top 5 in the next draft - but you won't get that straight up. He'd have to be in a package.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Love how these people talk like they know what Ujiri is thinking lol. The Rudy Gay trade wasnt a Tank move it was getting rid of an underperforming player and ridiculous contract before it was too late...

    Its like this

    Tim Liewke: TANK TANK acquire multiple picks
    Masai Ujiri: Building (undecided)
    Dwane Casey: Lets make playoffs win and develop.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    This is where I disagree. Amir doesn't do anything himself, he needs to be surrounded with smart players. Surround him with young guys who are a bit stupid and he will be fine. He isn't a game breaker, for me, he is a Horace Grant.

    You can lose this year and still keep amir.

    But the best way would have been to lose lowry, and NOT to have grabbed Vasquez
    The Stealth Tank requires that you at least not start DJ Augustin.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Love how these people talk like they know what Ujiri is thinking lol. The Rudy Gay trade wasnt a Tank move it was getting rid of an underperforming player and ridiculous contract before it was too late...

    Its like this

    Tim Liewke: TANK TANK acquire multiple picks
    Masai Ujiri: Building (undecided)
    Dwane Casey: Lets make playoffs win and develop
    .
    So much irony.

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Love how these people talk like they know what Ujiri is thinking lol. The Rudy Gay trade wasnt a Tank move it was getting rid of an underperforming player and ridiculous contract before it was too late...
    I don't get this criticism. Nobody thinks they know what Ujiri's thinking, obviously. Everybody's sharing perspectives. One side thinks comments and transactions thus far "prove" their perspective, and they other side thinks the same of their perspective. Pretty sure everyone's self-aware that they're only discussing personal opinions. Not sure how this accusation (which is being repeated somewhat frequently) is relevant or helpful.

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    Air Johnson is a energy guy off the bench. In a championship team, he is not even the first big off the bench. A first round pick even as high as in the 20s is a good for Amir. However, I am sure no GM will give up a 2014 first round draft pick for Amir. That being said, I be happy for 2 2nd round pick for Amir

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    I'll echo what others have said, in that it would have to be a "deal you can't refuse". Amir, and I'll lump DeMar into the same category, may never be superstars, but they bring much more to the team than their stats, and the kind of dedicated hard-working, ever improving players that you need in building a winning culture. They present a hell of an example of being a pro, to any young kids coming in, which alone can accelerate their development.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    Amir's worth more than a top 10 to me. Still too much of a gamble in #5-10 - plenty of picks in that range will not become as effective as Amir. And he's still getting better, which is crazy. Evidently his capable of extending his range (not that I really want him away from the basket) as well as being the second best finisher in the league at the rim, next to LeBron James.

    Amir is underrated, still, and on a great contract. I'd want a top 5 in the next draft - but you won't get that straight up. He'd have to be in a package.
    So you would throw away multiple seasons to try and get lottery picks, but you wouldn't trade Amir, for said pick? Excuse me while I slam my head agains this table and ponder that thought

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I'm with Stooley, I like both Amir and DD as pieces going forward to compliment JV. I would trade him for the right package, but how are you going to replace him going forward? It's not easy to find guys like Amir, and like ezz_bee mentioned, Amir is some serious bang for the buck and a tough trade to win if you move him.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    So you would throw away multiple seasons to try and get lottery picks, but you wouldn't trade Amir, for said pick? Excuse me while I slam my head agains this table and ponder that thought
    Sorry, that was rude. I don't follow the logic though. Picks in the 5 - 10 range are what we are after with all this talk about tanking no?

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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    I don't get this criticism. Nobody thinks they know what Ujiri's thinking, obviously. Everybody's sharing perspectives. One side thinks comments and transactions thus far "prove" their perspective, and they other side thinks the same of their perspective. Pretty sure everyone's self-aware that they're only discussing personal opinions. Not sure how this accusation (which is being repeated somewhat frequently) is relevant or helpful.
    Numerous posts say otherwise. there is a whole thread devoted to suggesting that "the debate is over", and I've seen numerous posts, there and elsewhere, that go as far as calling people ridiculous/delusional if they don't see that MU is in full tank mode.

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