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Thread: DC and development of young players: bad players, bad coach or something more?

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    Default DC and development of young players: bad players, bad coach or something more?

    I don't get it. All the talks about players not wanting to come play in Canada and when they get good, they leave to go to greener grass and now there's talks about trading DD? What gives? We are, in my opinion a couple pieces from being decent. Why blow it up in the hopes of maybe getting something in the draft? Raptors have a history of not using their Rookies the right way and not wanting to play too many Rookies at the same time. What good will having a top draft pic if they will be dealt with wrong.

    If I am one of the top 5 players and Raps pick me, I would pull an Eric Lindros (Refuse to go to the Nordiques) because they were so bad a the time. In this case, it would be because I know they will not use me the right way.

    Seriously though, enough of the Tanking talks. Surely there are more Raps fans who would rather the team play hard, have the right coach who can teach the young guys properly and make the playoffs, even if we get beat the first round, it will at least be a playoff experience.

    Look at Portland, they are killing it right not and they don't have superstars. Lilliard, who everyone was questioning Portland about taking so high is the quickly becoming one of the best point guard in the league. I doubt if he was drafter by the Raps he would get all the playing time he has been and certainly not have won Rookie Of The Year.

    Another example is Drummond. He is way better than JV because in my opinion, he is getting his feet wet by actually being in games even when he makes mistakes. If you don't get a chance to learn from your mistakes, how are you going to learn?

    So come MLSE, do the right thing and think about your fans that have been loyal to the Raps from all these years. DD is playing great ball, he loves the City and the City loves him. Kyle is playing great as of late and with the new players we just got, who knows what can happen when it comes to getting a coach that knows what he is doing?

    Just my though on this anyway!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Do you think Casey will be here next year?

    I don't.

    Tanks, Dwane!
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    Silly

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    How was DeMar "not developed properly"? He was given plenty of playing time in an encouraging environment and turned into a reasonably good player who signed a generous contract. DeMar has not been done hard by in this scenario.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    How was DeMar "not developed properly"? He was given plenty of playing time in an encouraging environment and turned into a reasonably good player who signed a generous contract. DeMar has not been done hard by in this scenario.
    Demar had the 'benefit' of playing under Jay "Defense?" Triano.

    Who was nowhere near the Rookie Killer that Dwane Casey has proven to be, but could also have been just taking orders from BC, who was likely actually making the calls on Minutes.
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Dec 18th, 2013 at 12:24 PM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    So, JV a full time starter in his second year (started all but 5 as a rookie0, Ross moved into the starting line-up in his second year once Gay given the boot is stunting our rookies? Sure they may be on a short leash at times, but the are progressing and becoming NBA players who woll contrinute for a long time.

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    I've ALWAYS questioned this franchise's ability to develop young talent. I've had very little confidence in their ability to both develop and nurture young guys in a way that allows them to improve while gaining an appreciation and desire to still play here. Demar seems to be the anomaly to me, and the fact that he is still improving is a testament, IMO, to how good he really is. I tend to feel that Demar would be even better at this point in his career if had to been drafted by any number of other franchise's. But, of course, this is just my opinion based on very little evidence. I certainly have no idea if this franchise truly sucks at developing young talent. And, like the OP, this affects my desire to tank, because I am not confidant that this franchise can get the most out of their draft picks, regardless of how talented they may be.

    That being said, we have new ownership and management, so I am open to the idea of letting them try. If MU decides to go to the draft to build the team, I'll support him. If he doesn't, I'll support him. Either way, I'm on board and will continue watching and cheering until management fails, and if they do, I will then curse and swear on them like I did with BC.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Sigh.

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    do remember ujiri fired everyone from BC's development team

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    I didn't realize our goal was to be decent. Hm. Welp, so much for titles

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Another factor to consider is natural talent.

    How many players have come through Toronto with the talent to immediately (by second season) contribute at an Allstar or near Allstar level?

    Those types of talents are generally found in the draft and the lottery in particular.

    Some guys need to be nurtured like DD or JV. Others just come in and kick ass because they're that good. Toronto needs guys who do the latter because the team is loaded with guys to do the former.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    I didn't realize our goal was to be decent. Hm. Welp, so much for titles
    Our goal should be 50 wins, and sustained "home court in playoffs" success. Everyone talks championship or bust, but something like a third of the league has only ever won titles, and that was before the 30 team era. Don't get me wrong, I would love "titles" too, but I'm going to hold my breath. You need lot's of luck, and typically you need the first or second best player in the NBA on your team. Let's win some playoff rounds, let's get something going, let's enjoy basketball again.

    Everybody's saying "heaven forbid we became the Denver Nuggets model", hell what if we got to that point and sustained it, or improved upon it. I would kill to have that kind of success, it's like a starving man passing up a hamburger while he waits for filet mignon.
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    It's not about developing. Don't get me wrong it's very important ingredient to a player's success. But the most important thing is, you gotta have TALENT.

    If Lillard was drafted by the Raps i'm pretty sure he would put up the same numbers that he's putting up right now.

    The 3 BEST players the Raps have drafted in the last 7 years. Bargnani, DeRozan and Valanciunas.

    I think Bargnani lived up to his potential believe it or not. This is what he is, a jump shooting big. His potential wasn't really that high. Don't know why Nowitzki's name kept popping up when Bargs was a rookie. The only similarities that they have is they're both white and they're both 7ft tall.

    DeRozan, when the Raps took him 9th overall in 2009 he was very raw. Like, he couldn't do anything but jump. Took 5 years for him to develop his game. I think the Raps did a great job being patience with him.

    As for Valanciunas, everyone knows big man takes longer to develop. I'm not worried about him. The skills are there you can see it. He'll be alright. If he works hard i think he'll be an all-star in the future.
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    what a thread.

    the number of people questioning Lillard = 0

    the number that thought he may go higher..... big.

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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    I don't get it. All the talks about players not wanting to come play in Canada and when they get good, they leave to go to greener grass and now there's talks about trading DD? What gives? We are, in my opinion a couple pieces from being decent. Why blow it up in the hopes of maybe getting something in the draft? Raptors have a history of not using their Rookies the right way and not wanting to play too many Rookies at the same time. What good will having a top draft pic if they will be dealt with wrong.

    If I am one of the top 5 players and Raps pick me, I would pull an Eric Lindros (Refuse to go to the Nordiques) because they were so bad a the time. In this case, it would be because I know they will not use me the right way.

    Seriously though, enough of the Tanking talks. Surely there are more Raps fans who would rather the team play hard, have the right coach who can teach the young guys properly and make the playoffs, even if we get beat the first round, it will at least be a playoff experience.

    Look at Portland, they are killing it right not and they don't have superstars. Lilliard, who everyone was questioning Portland about taking so high is the quickly becoming one of the best point guard in the league. I doubt if he was drafter by the Raps he would get all the playing time he has been and certainly not have won Rookie Of The Year.

    Another example is Drummond. He is way better than JV because in my opinion, he is getting his feet wet by actually being in games even when he makes mistakes. If you don't get a chance to learn from your mistakes, how are you going to learn?

    So come MLSE, do the right thing and think about your fans that have been loyal to the Raps from all these years. DD is playing great ball, he loves the City and the City loves him. Kyle is playing great as of late and with the new players we just got, who knows what can happen when it comes to getting a coach that knows what he is doing?

    Just my though on this anyway!
    Apparently not. The numbers have spoken for months.
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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Total career NBA minutes played by Valanchewthis: 2092. Drummond: 2098. I guess those 6 minutes, and not natural ability, make all the difference?
    Or they just develop at a different rate. You know: gangly, somewhat lanky Eastern European vs beastly NBA ready college kid? I think we've already pretty much seen what Andre Drummond has to offer, he has no mid range or free throw game to speak of, I wish JV would realize how good his midrange is for a early 20s 7 footer. JV has way more potential as an all star than Drummond and everybody around the league knows it.
    Dwane Casey says: Pound the Gay!!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Or they just develop at a different rate. You know: gangly, somewhat lanky Eastern European vs beastly NBA ready college kid? I think we've already pretty much seen what Andre Drummond has to offer, he has no mid range or free throw game to speak of, I wish JV would realize how good his midrange is for a early 20s 7 footer. JV has way more potential as an all star than Drummond and everybody around the league knows it.
    This guy is right whats next fro drummond? he isnt going to develop a jumpshot like howard and deandre jordan or a post game or a good freethrow %. On the other hand Jv is already got at alot of things he just needs more expereince
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Or they just develop at a different rate. You know: gangly, somewhat lanky Eastern European vs beastly NBA ready college kid? I think we've already pretty much seen what Andre Drummond has to offer, he has no mid range or free throw game to speak of, I wish JV would realize how good his midrange is for a early 20s 7 footer. JV has way more potential as an all star than Drummond and everybody around the league knows it.
    NO x 1,000,000

    Everyone around the league knows Drummond is an absolute beast and could be the next shaq. he is often rated as a top 3 young talent in the league.

    Drummond was way more raw coming into the NBA which is why he dropped all the way to 9th. He will develop more, and is already contributing more than JV.

    Not to say I don't like JV, but Drummond is an absolute manimal

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    NO x 1,000,000

    Everyone around the league knows Drummond is an absolute beast and could be the next shaq. he is often rated as a top 3 young talent in the league.

    Drummond was way more raw coming into the NBA which is why he dropped all the way to 9th. He will develop more, and is already contributing more than JV.

    Not to say I don't like JV, but Drummond is an absolute manimal
    Drummond is a beast but do you really think thats he gonna develope a decent jumpshot or freethrow % and please dont compare drummond to shaq its not even close shaq qas 7'1 300lbs and had post moves not just dunk everything when he came into the league
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    Quote 4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
    Drummond is a beast but do you really think thats he gonna develope a decent jumpshot or freethrow % and please dont compare drummond to shaq its not even close shaq qas 7'1 300lbs and had post moves not just dunk everything when he came into the league
    drummond was drafted as a MAJOR project and has already come a long way. who's to say what he can or can't do.

    he is way more athletic than JV.

    He's probably closer to a Howard in his prime than a shaq, but the point that is often made is that he has the potential to physically dominate every player he faces, much like those two guys did.

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