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Thread: DC and development of young players: bad players, bad coach or something more?

  1. #81
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Found this at Rotoworld:


    Not only does this make me hate Casey even more, but it makes me question, like Bendit above, where this constant slack Casey is getting is coming from.
    To his credit JV has said nothing publicly.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Why'll I would agree with this in many instances, there is still the case of his body language after fighting for position and not getting fed the ball (while in the exact same position where he is fed the ball early in the game). It's very discouraging to see, and doesn't look to me like a guy mad at himself for not getting deeper. He's fighting his tail off for position every possession.

    And in regards to his own comments, it would be very bad form for a young player to blame the coach for his problems; however, if he says he needs to get better, Casey needs to realize that that won't happen without the minutes.
    He needs to keep fighting for position every position. The lack of touches as the game goes on is likely coaching strategy.

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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    He needs to keep fighting for position every position. The lack of touches as the game goes on is likely coaching strategy.
    'Every possession '

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    As a young player learning the position, fighting for and being in good position is a talent/strength in itself. Though frustrating hope JV can understand this...his time will come when his mates see his consistency and his position becomes a large part of the offense. Right now there is too much going on with the team.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    As a young player learning the position, fighting for and being in good position is a talent/strength in itself. Though frustrating hope JV can understand this...his time will come when his mates see his consistency and his position becomes a large part of the offense. Right now there is too much going on with the team.
    What about his defense?

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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    What about his defense?
    Since he gained to much weight and not enough actual muscle this summer his lateral quicks and leaps haven't been up to par so he is having trouble with the quicker guys...

    However, he has done a pretty good job of trying to be a rim protector and without fouling every play....I see massive strides in this area compared to last. Just needs to improve his body to allow him to guard face up bigs and PnR situations

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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    Look at Portland, they are killing it right not and they don't have superstars. Lilliard, who everyone was questioning Portland about taking so high is the quickly becoming one of the best point guard in the league. I doubt if he was drafter by the Raps he would get all the playing time he has been and certainly not have won Rookie Of The Year.
    First I would like to say what up to everyone long time reader, first time poster (tank photo to come ASAP).

    Second I would like to address the above quoute before getting into the heart my rebuttal to the overall point of the thread. How does Portland not have a superstar? Lilliard is better than any player on the raptors and still has upside. In 5 years he could be the best PG in the league and no one would be surprised by it. Lilliard isn't even the best player on Ripcity, Aldridge is getting serious MVP consideration. I think the clearly have some star power.

    Finally. The idea that talent is wasted in Toronto because we can't develop our players is valid but a bit of a stretch. Even if this was the case in the past due to coaching/management philosophy, we have clearly moved on as an organization. Could these Raptors make the playoffs, develop together, get some experience and be a solid team? I think so. Would I watch the games and be excited for the playoffs? Of course! But does our team currently have in place enough short term and potential long term talent to win game 7's in the playoffs? No we don't.

    PS I also feel that the concept that "clearly Raptors fans want to tank because everyone on the Raptors Republic forum wants to tank" is skewed. If you are a big enough fan of the team to be posting on a team forum you probably have a lot invested in the team and the sport of basketball. Hardcore fans understand how being bad is needed to be good, I think the average fan (which make up a large majority of the teams following) would rather be okay and make the playoffs.

    Cheers!

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    Quote TheMarfin wrote: View Post
    First I would like to say what up to everyone long time reader, first time poster (tank photo to come ASAP).

    Second I would like to address the above quoute before getting into the heart my rebuttal to the overall point of the thread. How does Portland not have a superstar? Lilliard is better than any player on the raptors and still has upside. In 5 years he could be the best PG in the league and no one would be surprised by it. Lilliard isn't even the best player on Ripcity, Aldridge is getting serious MVP consideration. I think the clearly have some star power.

    Finally. The idea that talent is wasted in Toronto because we can't develop our players is valid but a bit of a stretch. Even if this was the case in the past due to coaching/management philosophy, we have clearly moved on as an organization. Could these Raptors make the playoffs, develop together, get some experience and be a solid team? I think so. Would I watch the games and be excited for the playoffs? Of course! But does our team currently have in place enough short term and potential long term talent to win game 7's in the playoffs? No we don't.

    PS I also feel that the concept that "clearly Raptors fans want to tank because everyone on the Raptors Republic forum wants to tank" is skewed. If you are a big enough fan of the team to be posting on a team forum you probably have a lot invested in the team and the sport of basketball. Hardcore fans understand how being bad is needed to be good, I think the average fan (which make up a large majority of the teams following) would rather be okay and make the playoffs.

    Cheers!
    Nice first post!

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    I'm sure JV doesn't take it personally and realizes Dwane is just a retard.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    It's a tough call, while it does seem that JV is showing more frustration this year versus last year, it is difficult to parse where he is directing that frustration. How much is directed at teammates, coach(es), himself, or just unspecified frustration at the universe?

    This also isn't something I'm worried about. JV will earn Casey's respect, and/or Casey won't be back next year. I do feel that if there is any damage to JV's development due to Casey's system/minutes will be remedied pretty quickly with a new coach. At least I'm not worried that Casey will "ruin" JV as a player.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Quote TheMarfin wrote: View Post
    First I would like to say what up to everyone long time reader, first time poster (tank photo to come ASAP).

    Second I would like to address the above quoute before getting into the heart my rebuttal to the overall point of the thread. How does Portland not have a superstar? Lilliard is better than any player on the raptors and still has upside. In 5 years he could be the best PG in the league and no one would be surprised by it. Lilliard isn't even the best player on Ripcity, Aldridge is getting serious MVP consideration. I think the clearly have some star power.

    Finally. The idea that talent is wasted in Toronto because we can't develop our players is valid but a bit of a stretch. Even if this was the case in the past due to coaching/management philosophy, we have clearly moved on as an organization. Could these Raptors make the playoffs, develop together, get some experience and be a solid team? I think so. Would I watch the games and be excited for the playoffs? Of course! But does our team currently have in place enough short term and potential long term talent to win game 7's in the playoffs? No we don't.

    PS I also feel that the concept that "clearly Raptors fans want to tank because everyone on the Raptors Republic forum wants to tank" is skewed. If you are a big enough fan of the team to be posting on a team forum you probably have a lot invested in the team and the sport of basketball. Hardcore fans understand how being bad is needed to be good, I think the average fan (which make up a large majority of the teams following) would rather be okay and make the playoffs.

    Cheers!
    Solid contribution. The other thing that Portland has that we lacked for years is a well balanced roster. The pieces they have fit well together.

    Aldridge - amazing post scorer and passer with good range
    Batum - very good perimeter shooter and decent ball handler and good defender
    Matthews - very good perimeter shooter and decent defender
    Lillard - the motor, can score inside or out, in transition or half-court
    Lopez - big with a decent motor to do the dirty work, undervalued player for years is getting some due finally

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  16. #92
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    Quote TheMarfin wrote: View Post
    First I would like to say what up to everyone long time reader, first time poster (tank photo to come ASAP)....
    Cheers!
    Welcome. Keep posting. Good stuff.

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    I read a Brad Stevens interview where he said that the biggest difference between pro ball and college ball is how much more they practice in college. There are just too many games in the NBA.

    THIS is why JV's gotta get more minutes. He needs these games to develop.

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  19. #94
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I read a Brad Stevens interview where he said that the biggest difference between pro ball and college ball is how much more they practice in college. There are just too many games in the NBA.

    THIS is why JV's gotta get more minutes. He needs these games to develop.
    In agreement.

  20. #95
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I read a Brad Stevens interview where he said that the biggest difference between pro ball and college ball is how much more they practice in college. There are just too many games in the NBA.

    THIS is why JV's gotta get more minutes. He needs these games to develop.
    This quote would be perfect on that other thread where guys are talking about how bad it is to stay for extra years in college. The NBA isn't for development.

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    It's a tough call, while it does seem that JV is showing more frustration this year versus last year, it is difficult to parse where he is directing that frustration. How much is directed at teammates, coach(es), himself, or just unspecified frustration at the universe?

    This also isn't something I'm worried about. JV will earn Casey's respect, and/or Casey won't be back next year. I do feel that if there is any damage to JV's development due to Casey's system/minutes will be remedied pretty quickly with a new coach. At least I'm not worried that Casey will "ruin" JV as a player.
    I agree. Like many fans, I'd like Jonas to have more minutes and more touches after the 1st quarter. There's a bit of a chicken and egg problem here - he clearly seems to play better when he's engaged and involved (like many players), but he loses that opportunity when he makes mistakes.

    I don't think Casey's ruining Jonas' development - that fear is overstated, imho. Plenty of coaches develop young players this way. The appropriate approach really depends on your personnel - "playing through mistakes" means some young guys are allowed to develop, or never required to address, bad habits. Heavy minutes help accelerate development for other guys. Getting benched is a wake-up call for some guys that helps them stay focused while they're on the floor and paying attention to what the coaching staff is trying to teach them. Other guys get rattled and thrown out of rhythm by being benched and playing with irregular minutes. A guy like Bargs loses confidence and motivation altogether without regular minutes.

    I think Jonas will be fine, even though I'd like to see him with a bit of a longer leash.

  22. #97
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    Default Jonas and Ross's Development

    So I just thought it was funny that everyone is blaming Dwayne Casey for not effectively developing his young talent this season. Simply put, it has been the topic of nearly every Quick Recap, and the subject of many forum threads. Yet, although I do agree that this is the case, and the problem is quite severe, I don't necessarily think that Casey is solely to blame. I see this ongoing issue as a function of the lack of developmental incentives directed towards Casey. Think about it, the man is in the last year of his contract and is quite desperate to win. Specifically, he needs to justify his extension, or at the very least strengthen his basketball resume so that he may find a job elsewhere. Therefore, it shouldn't be a surprise that Casey is unwilling to play his younger and more inexperienced players as they will not contribute to his job security. I mean, would you want to role the dice and use largely unknown mercurial entities when vying to keep your job (Ross to a greater extent)? I wouldn't.

    This is why I think that Casey should have been fired long ago. It's no secret that he probably isn't going to be extended, so why should he care about how the rookies develop? In all reality, from his perspective it's probably much better if they do not blossom into all-stars. Would you want to have to compete against a stronger team when revisiting Toronto with another organization? I don't think so.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I mistakenly assumed you wanted to discuss his playing time, which has been an ongoing discussion for well over a season, which is why your post was moved.

    Had I realized you actually were going for conspiracy theories, I probably would have closed the thread and moved it to the trash-bin.

    I'm democratic enough to give you a little leeway but, from the posts above mine, I think you're flying solo on this expedition!
    You sound like an absolute tyrant, wow, shut up. Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech? I actually wanted to respond to the original post until I seen what you wrote. Are you actually a representative of RR or are you just a guy who posts allot??

  24. #99
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    Quote Green Maple Leaf wrote: View Post
    You sound like an absolute tyrant, wow, shut up. Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech? I actually wanted to respond to the original post until I seen what you wrote. Are you actually a representative of RR or are you just a guy who posts allot??
    Uh he's a moderator dude. So he's actually doing what he's supposed to.

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    Quote Green Maple Leaf wrote: View Post
    Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech?
    Did anyone get arrested for posting on RR that I'm not aware of?

    I wise man once said.....


    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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