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  • #16
    People who think JV is at fault for that play are mental. Every single thing about Casey's set up was wrong.

    Nice of him to throw JV under the bus, though. That's twice now, by my count.

    Comment


    • #17
      Completely the same





      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Mr.Z wrote: View Post
        I don't get it. None of what you say justifies not letting JV play.
        JV should be playing all the minutes he can physically handle because how else will he learn?
        Absolutely nothing justifies playing Patrick Patterson more minutes than Jonas. Nothing. Especially when the team just loses the game anyways.
        Boom!

        As long as JV is playing hard and within the team he should be getting as many minutes as he can handle.

        Newsflash: this team is awful and is going nowhere without growth from its players. Growth doesn't happen stapled to the bench.

        Comment


        • #19
          A 21 year old big struggling with help D? sounds familiar to the whole league

          Comment


          • #20
            I've re-watched the play several times now.

            I agree with WMCJ's comments about the line-up sent out there. Patterson, JV, Lowry, DD and Salmons? Patterson on the in-bounder makes some sense, but why not have JV there? Where's Landry Fields? Where's Ross? Where's Amir? Salmons isn't exactly the fleetest of foot or known for defence. Weird line-up.

            I would have expected a line-up of JV on inbounder, Amir on Al Jeff, DD/Fields on Kemba (height advantage to disrupt the shot). DD/Fields on Henderson and Lowry on the weak side winger (can't see the name or number). If you are Charlotte, your shot choices are likely Kemba, Henderson, Jefferson in that order. You need to defend in that order too. Not enough time for anything fancy, so just guard the catch and shoot.

            The execution on the screen wasn't fantastic by the Raps (obviously). First, Patterson shouldn't have left his feet on the pass. He is tall enough to make the pass difficult without jumping. All he has to do is prevent a direct line pass. With his arms up, McRoberts would have had to put a bit of lob on the pass to hit Kemba at the top of the key, which would have been a split second delay, hopefully enough to allow Kemba's man (Lowry in this case) to close the gap. Because Patterson jumps, he takes himself out of position for the easy direct bounce pass to the corner.

            At the point of contact, JV should have flashed out to at least get in Kemba's path, and the weak side winger (in this case DD and Salmons) would slide over, with DD taking Al Jeff in case of alley-oop (however unlikely with Al Jeff). JV can see the screen coming and needs to get out at top of the key, forcing Kemba to cut further towards the sideline but at a higher angle which would have resulted in Kemba being open at the 3 pt arc on the wing near the timeline. If this was the case, Kemba's momentum would have been carrying him away from the basket and towards the inbounder; a much more difficult catch and shoot situation.

            Lowry lets up on his pursuit before Kemba even catches the ball. With the game on the line, you gotta fight to that spot no matter what. Even a defender coming late out of the corner of Kemba's vision could have been enough to disrupt the shot (although Kemba is a fairly clutch player).

            I can't get the gif to paste, but here's a link to it.
            http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/12/nba-...ptors-bobcats/
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • #21
              I agree with WhiteMen... this is ridiculous. We keep saying that we want our young guys to get experience and LEARN. What better way to learn than to actually be in that situation, make a mistake, experience the consequence, and watch it on game tape?


              Yeah, Casey put out a messed up lineup... really, does that surprise us? Despite that, I agree with the OP on one point: Val was at fault on that play. On last-shot plays, aren't defenders are supposed to switch every screen? Val didn't switch in time.

              Comment


              • #22
                Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                I don't get it. None of what you say justifies not letting JV play.
                JV should be playing all the minutes he can physically handle because how else will he learn?
                Absolutely nothing justifies playing Patrick Patterson more minutes than Jonas. Nothing. Especially when the team just loses the game anyways.
                LOL, oh man that was hilarious!! It's like you think the coaches priority is to sacrafice wins to get JV more experience. You and I and everyone else at the forum that doesn't care much for where this season is headed may want to see JV get minutes, but you must realize the coach has an agenda which includes winning first right?

                Comment


                • #23
                  NoFrillz wrote: View Post
                  I agree with WhiteMen... this is ridiculous. We keep saying that we want our young guys to get experience and LEARN. What better way to learn than to actually be in that situation, make a mistake, experience the consequence, and watch it on game tape?


                  Yeah, Casey put out a messed up lineup... really, does that surprise us? Despite that, I agree with the OP on one point: Val was at fault on that play. On last-shot plays, aren't defenders are supposed to switch every screen? Val didn't switch in time.
                  And that loss is perfect for the tank because of that. Our young guy learns something, and we lose.
                  "Bruno?
                  Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                  He's terrible."

                  -Superjudge, 7/23

                  Hope you're wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                    LOL, oh man that was hilarious!! It's like you think the coaches priority is to sacrafice wins to get JV more experience. You and I and everyone else at the forum that doesn't care much for where this season is headed may want to see JV get minutes, but you must realize the coach has an agenda which includes winning first right?
                    This is not always the case.

                    MU and DC both know very well that the coach is being judged on his ability to develop players this year. They even came out and announced it to the media.
                    "Bruno?
                    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                    He's terrible."

                    -Superjudge, 7/23

                    Hope you're wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Boom!

                      As long as JV is playing hard and within the team he should be getting as many minutes as he can handle.

                      Newsflash: this team is awful and is going nowhere without growth from its players. Growth doesn't happen stapled to the bench.
                      If fans' agendas came first then you would be spot on. Unfortunately tanking is limited to management and fans only.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                        If fans' agendas came first then you would be spot on. Unfortunately tanking is limited to management and fans only.
                        See my other post. Tanking and player development are two very different things.
                        "Bruno?
                        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                        He's terrible."

                        -Superjudge, 7/23

                        Hope you're wrong.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          NoFrillz wrote: View Post
                          I agree with WhiteMen... this is ridiculous. We keep saying that we want our young guys to get experience and LEARN. What better way to learn than to actually be in that situation, make a mistake, experience the consequence, and watch it on game tape?


                          Yeah, Casey put out a messed up lineup... really, does that surprise us? Despite that, I agree with the OP on one point: Val was at fault on that play. On last-shot plays, aren't defenders are supposed to switch every screen? Val didn't switch in time.
                          Not necessarily. Switching is a team by team, situation by situation basis. As I said in my post, JV should have hedged the screen and forced Kemba to take a different angle, but switching isn't necessarily the plan. If JV hedges properly, then Kemba catches the ball near the timeline and Lowry would have had more time to get back on him, with Kemba moving away from the hoop, a significantly more difficult shot. As a result, Kemba basically got a warm up jumper.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            stooley wrote: View Post
                            This is not always the case.

                            MU and DC both know very well that the coach is being judged on his ability to develop players this year. They even came out and announced it to the media.
                            You can't seriously think that they place player development over wins do you? The coaches job first and foremost is to put the team in the best position to win games. Regardless of where the season is headed that is always the mandate.

                            I think Casey has done a pretty good job with player development as well. Bargnani had his best year under Casey, Amir, DeMar are both flourishing under Casey as well. True he doesn't play JV and Ross as much as we would like, but again, it's about placing his team in the best position to win, not for young players to develop.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                              If fans' agendas came first then you would be spot on. Unfortunately tanking is limited to management and fans only.
                              Prior to OT JV had held Jefferson to to 5-12 shooting and at 5:31 in the 3rd when JV left the game the Raptors were up 65-53.

                              I disagree that JV should be on the bench given his impact on the game, the importance of his development, and the steaming pile of dung this team is at this point in time.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                stooley wrote: View Post
                                See my other post. Tanking and player development are two very different things.
                                I agree tanking and player development are two very different things, but if you are putting more emphasis on player development over trying to win games then tanking may as well be your agenda.

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