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Thread: Jonas Valanciunas's Ceiling...?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Quote 2KJ wrote: View Post
    True, guys like Horford, Al Jefferson, Prime Dwight Howard are good comparisons too. Maybe even Greg Monroe, Demarcus Cousins, Roy Hibbert. Tim Duncan at most too. My point is that Jonas is too skilled to just be a big who just rebounds, blocks shots, scores on putbacks and alley oops like Jordan, Chandler, Noah, Drummond, McGee, etc.


    http://www.nba.com/video/games/pisto...det-play3.nba/

    what you described is exactly what all-star centers are good at. Not sure Jonas can ever do the windmill. The difference between Duncan and Jonas is huge. He needs a refined post-game to be an all-star.

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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    http://www.nba.com/video/games/pisto...det-play3.nba/

    what you described is exactly what all-star centers are good at. Not sure Jonas can ever do the windmill. The difference between Duncan and Jonas is huge. He needs a refined post-game to be an all-star.
    LOL I don't care if Jonas can do a windmill or not. And yeah, unfortunately in today's game where it is perimeter based, centres aren't the main focal point of the offense anymore. Of course, Duncan is the greatest pf of all time. But Jonas has the potential to pattern his game after Duncan than be a Tyson Chandler who is very good defensively but very limited offensively.

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Not talking playing style here, but just calibre of player for JV's ceiling:
    - Gortat would be a minimum
    - Pau or Bynum (healthy) a realistic maximum
    - Horford or Noah a most likely median

    Not at all worried about 20/10. You don't need your C to give you 20. Need him to anchor the D, rebound, set the tone, be tenacious, block shots, change shots in the paint, demand respect at both ends of the floor, allow the O to play inside out, draw the occasional double team, pass well out of the post, etc.

    A good C changes the whole game by doing multiple things well. 20 points is neither here nor there - so many guys can put up 20 while taking away as much as they give.

    Don't need him to have any more range than a 15 foot J. That's enough to create space, and you want him near the basket in general. JV and Amir are really good on the offensive glass.

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  5. #84
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Lack of physical athletic gifts -- power/speed -- limits him to something like Bill Cartwright or LaSalle Thompson. Still much better than the old "bindlestiff" center like Luc Longley (those guys aren't in the league anymore since the handchecking rules were changed), but not the centrepiece on a winning team. A good complementary piece. A shade behind someone like Ron Seikaly, a shade ahead of Olden Polynice. Looking ahead, without significant improvement, I wouldn't offer him an extension past his rookie deal without letting the rest of the league set the price through RFA (unless the Raps are at that time a 55 win team). Given a moderate price not much more than he's getting now, I would bring him back, otherwise he's gone, and that's the story of him.
    What have you been smoking buddy?
    JV is a top 3 C in the league by the time he hits 25 book it.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  6. #85
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    For a second year player I think he is doing pretty good. His positioning, which I though was the weakest part of his game early this season, has clearly improved. He battles for position on both ends, and is now putting up some good rebound numbers as a result. I can see him becoming a top rebounder in the league within the next couple of seasons, given he gets the 30+ minutes going forward. I also think he will be a better than average shot blocker. His offensive game is still raw of course, but there is no real reason not to suspect it can get better. He can shoot, but needs more work in the post. He has only been getting that attention in the post since the Rudy trade, so I'm expecting we will see some improvement there even before the season ends. Hopefully, that will be a priority in the offseason, and maybe he adds another move or two in the post. I think Jonas is going to be real good, definitely one of the better two way C's in a couple of seasons.

    I don't really want to compare to other players, but I could see him averaging 15-18 ppg, 10-12 rpg, 1.5-2.0 bpg, 2-3 apg with maybe another three seasons under his belt.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Lack of physical athletic gifts -- power/speed -- limits him to something like Bill Cartwright or LaSalle Thompson. Still much better than the old "bindlestiff" center like Luc Longley (those guys aren't in the league anymore since the handchecking rules were changed), but not the centrepiece on a winning team. A good complementary piece. A shade behind someone like Ron Seikaly, a shade ahead of Olden Polynice. Looking ahead, without significant improvement, I wouldn't offer him an extension past his rookie deal without letting the rest of the league set the price through RFA (unless the Raps are at that time a 55 win team). Given a moderate price not much more than he's getting now, I would bring him back, otherwise he's gone, and that's the story of him.
    Not worth an extension... Mind blown. [Best way to make others remmember your nickname]
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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    Not worth an extension... Mind blown. [Best way to make others remmember your nickname]
    Or just be straight up Brandon


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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Rather have 15 and 12 with 1.5+ blocks than 20 and 10. Either way would be alright with me though.

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    I think JV's ceiling is a poor man's Tim Duncan. His game reminds me a lot of Duncan's but I don't think JV will ever be as consistent offensively as Duncan. I also think that JV has the potential to affect the defensive end like Hibbert. It seems a lot of people on here are underestimating his ceiling because he may look lost at times or seem like hes not even a factor on the court but under a coach like Dwane Casey, who is not the best at developing young players, he often doesn't look his best. Since the Rudy Gay trade as well as the increased playing time, he has been an animal. Hopefully this brief period is just the start of Big Val's potential!
    Last edited by JRedmond14; Sun Dec 29th, 2013 at 12:29 AM.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Rather have 15 and 12 with 1.5+ blocks than 20 and 10. Either way would be alright with me though.
    Agreed, I'd love him to be the next Kareem and average 33 and 15,but he aint Kareem and league is totally different now. I dunno who he currently compares to in terms of his actual style, he seems a little unique in what he does, just different bits and pieces from various players. but I can see him being a 17-13 guy, and would be delighted if he got to that level. He will definitely be right up there in rebounding, he just works so hard. Also offensive rebounding, which i think is so important, getting second and third chances, he's got that ability.
    His mid range shot looks a little weird, but the touch looks fine and I think he'll eventually be reliable from mid range down the road. Defensively he is improving slowly, which is fine. I watched Andrew Bogut come into the league, he originally wasn't anything special defensively, 5-6 years later he lead the league in blocks and is generally a great rim protector these days. I was never that worried about JV's defense, it will, and is, coming around.

  13. #91
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    Agreed, I'd love him to be the next Kareem and average 33 and 15,but he aint Kareem and league is totally different now. I dunno who he currently compares to in terms of his actual style, he seems a little unique in what he does, just different bits and pieces from various players. but I can see him being a 17-13 guy, and would be delighted if he got to that level. He will definitely be right up there in rebounding, he just works so hard. Also offensive rebounding, which i think is so important, getting second and third chances, he's got that ability.
    His mid range shot looks a little weird, but the touch looks fine and I think he'll eventually be reliable from mid range down the road. Defensively he is improving slowly, which is fine. I watched Andrew Bogut come into the league, he originally wasn't anything special defensively, 5-6 years later he lead the league in blocks and is generally a great rim protector these days. I was never that worried about JV's defense, it will, and is, coming around.
    i love boguts' game.

    in all fun, with the names of all time greats being tossed around freely here, why not throw in kareem too. i've seen bigV hit a hook shot. might as well throw him into the ceiling conversation.

    lol at a poor mans duncan. greatest power forward ever, skill wise. (i would take the mailman over timmy) if bigV came to 65 cents on the dollar of timmy, he was a great pick.
    For The Win

  14. #92
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    Agreed, I'd love him to be the next Kareem and average 33 and 15,but he aint Kareem and league is totally different now. I dunno who he currently compares to in terms of his actual style, he seems a little unique in what he does, just different bits and pieces from various players. but I can see him being a 17-13 guy, and would be delighted if he got to that level. He will definitely be right up there in rebounding, he just works so hard. Also offensive rebounding, which i think is so important, getting second and third chances, he's got that ability.
    His mid range shot looks a little weird, but the touch looks fine and I think he'll eventually be reliable from mid range down the road. Defensively he is improving slowly, which is fine. I watched Andrew Bogut come into the league, he originally wasn't anything special defensively, 5-6 years later he lead the league in blocks and is generally a great rim protector these days. I was never that worried about JV's defense, it will, and is, coming around.
    JV is going to be slow to develop on D considering all the time spent on the bench last season and to start this year.

    Practice time, once the season gets going, is virtually non-existent.... especially 5on5 game like experience.

    It is a catch 22:
    bench him because he is not executing defensive rotations at game speed;
    he can't learn defensive rotations at game speed because he is on the bench.


    JV is going to be fine.
    Never going to be a generational dominant player in the mold of Hakeem, Shaq, or Duncan but should have no problem being considered an all-star such as Al Horford.
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  15. #93
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    He looked spry last night.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Looking back at this thread, Jonas can definitely be a 20&10 guy

    How has you're opinion changed since December on JV?

  17. #95
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    I think the same still...17 or 18 points with 11-13 boards. Continuing to develop his team and individual defense is key. Blocking shots isn't so important either, just constantly being in the right position to challenge and alter the shots ala Marc Gasol is more than enough. A bit less robotic with his post moves and a consistent mid range J and the stats will take care of themselves.

  18. #96
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote JRedmond14 wrote: View Post
    I think JV's ceiling is a poor man's Tim Duncan. His game reminds me a lot of Duncan's but I don't think JV will ever be as consistent offensively as Duncan. I also think that JV has the potential to affect the defensive end like Hibbert. It seems a lot of people on here are underestimating his ceiling because he may look lost at times or seem like hes not even a factor on the court but under a coach like Dwane Casey, who is not the best at developing young players, he often doesn't look his best. Since the Rudy Gay trade as well as the increased playing time, he has been an animal. Hopefully this brief period is just the start of Big Val's potential!
    I'll take the poor man's Tim Duncan with the extra little bit of height and weight that makes him a true center so that we can pair him with a long, lanky PF with a midrange shot instead of tiago splitter.
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    I'll take the poor man's Tim Duncan with the extra little bit of height and weight that makes him a true center so that we can pair him with a long, lanky PF with a midrange shot instead of tiago splitter.
    Umm Tim Duncan is taller and heavier than Jonas.

  20. #98
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Umm Tim Duncan is taller and heavier than Jonas.
    Really? Shoot. Duncan always seemed a little bit more prototypical power forward-y, whereas Jonas seemed more center-y. Oh well, the eye test fails me. I'll still take the poor man's Tim Duncan, in any case
    @Boymusic66

  21. #99
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    For a centre to be a 20-10 guy may not be a good thing in todays NBA. The league is speeding up, not slowing down. JV scoring 20 pts. a game in the low post could very well mean we have a slower pace than the opposing teams. That's why everyone is playing small ball these days.

    I'll take 10 rebounds for JV though.

  22. #100
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    [QUOTE=Mediumcore;338630]For a centre to be a 20-10 guy may not be a good thing in todays NBA. The league is speeding up, not slowing down. JV scoring 20 pts. a game in the low post could very well mean we have a slower pace than the opposing teams..../QUOTE]

    If it comes from transitions, getting up and down quickly, through pick and rolls and through recognition of when he is open, their pace might actually speed up.

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