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Thread: Could Ujiri possibly be buy our way into the draft rather than tanking?

  1. #1
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    Default Could Ujiri possibly be buy our way into the draft rather than tanking?

    There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what Ujiri plans to do. RR has just posted an article talking about whether or not Ujiri might be planning on trading into a the draft to get Wiggins. It's an interesting concept. While I don't think any GM is stupid enough to trade a top 5 pick in this stacked draft (too bad BC isn't the GM of any top 5 pick team), but I do think there is a slight possibility of trading into a 6th to 10th pick. With the 6th pick, We could probably draft Exum or Smart, especially since the top 4 picks seems to be Parker, Randle, Wiggins, and Embiid. So both could be a very good possibility. Around the 7-10th pick, we could draft players like Rodney Hood, or Zach LaVine. Seeing as how picks from the 6-10th range aren't as valuable as the top 5, it might be possible to pry a top 6-10 pick from teams. We could possible offer something like Demar and 1-2 first rounders (including our 2014 draft pick) for a top 6-10 pick and filler (maybe a bad contract). To be honest, I think this really hinges on Demar making the All-Star roster this year. If he can, then this could become something like the Jrue Holiday trade during draft night where the 76ers got the 6th pick of the 2013 NBA Draft for him. If this were entirely possible and this is in fact Ujiri's plan, then everyone should be relatively happy with this plan. Non-tankers will get to see their team make the playoffs and hopefully make some noise and not get kicked out in 4 games. Tankers will get to see Ujiri try to obtain a top 10 pick in the draft which is what they want. Obviously, this hinges on Ujiri actually being able to pull it off on draft night. Thoughts?

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    I think he is banking on Wiggins falling in the draft board. About 3-5 depending on what teams pick where.

    Utah- Parker, the religion thing is too perfect a fit, or Embiid. Depends on Hayward though

    Mil- could be Andrew, but they need help in the back court. Personally Exum or Smart

    Orl- the other PG to pair with Victor in the back court, or Randle but they have a young Canadian kid there showing promise. And are very young at every position besides PG

    #4 possibly up for grabs, could be the Den pic via NYK, I think Randle goes here or Embiid if he makes it this far, allowing them to trade Manimal for their SG, as there is talk he has hit his ceiling.
    #5 possibly us and Andrew

    Most of these teams will be offense first, so I think he slips, other than Embiid and his enormous potential. Cause they say he is not aggressive enough ( Andrew), but that makes him the perfect fit here. He wouldn't need to be the #1 threat, can come into his own, instead of him being pushed out there saying win now.

    I think right now is wait for desperate teams. Which will happen, then MU can pounce on the opportunity to snatch up assets. The whole time winning of course, but in definite need at sf. Then we get the perfect need draft night, with whatever trade, land Andrew. All our guys gets valuable experience, maybe even some playoffs. Either way they are showing now they can compete, and are in need of a couple of pieces, But with the east being so bad we might be able to gain some very valuable playoff exp, which would go along way with development. Different pressure, someone may rise to the occasion and show everyone something who knows. But it helps immensely with development. ie. Paul George, I am not saying we have anyone of that talent, but someone could believe in themselves and be pushed to new heights.

    I am sure there will be a few that climb up the draft board come combine time. Be a little inflated due to vertical, bench, tourney performances etc.

    As for Demar he might be here if he makes the All-Star game, personally I hope we have him in the future. If we were to land Andrew he is not gonna arrive and give us 20 ppg. He will be a stat sheet stuffer, but not elite scorer, No I am not saying DD is an elite scorer. We need to have someone here like Demar to help alleviate the pressure on young guys to score. They can just play there game and allow DD to do what he does Score.

    No one really knows, but I hope everyone isn't kidding themselves when they think that Andrew is not the #1 goal for MU. He is and will be fore sure. If there is no possibility then we can build for a possible trade. But he will be here next year I believe one way or another. That is of course if he leaves. But if he is not selected #1 and goes later, I think that is the fire he will need to become great. Especially if Jabari goes#1, they have been competing for a while against each other, and he would be pissed if he was selected ahead of him for sure.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    Why does this idea strike anybody as a revelation?

    The tunnel vision around here is stunning.

    Masai was the executive of the year.

    This is, and has always been a possibility.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I'm sure MU is considering all his options. Salmons seems to be the perfect asset to trade for a draft pick. He's only guaranteed for $1M next season so if MU wants to take on salary for picks he would be a good guy to move for a cap starved team.

    Getting a top 10 pick though will be difficult. Most teams that are in the bottom of the draft are rebuilding themselves. Can't see how a team would give up a pick unless you want to move DeRozan. Even if was Brooklyn or NY those picks are going to Atlanta and Denver respectively. Not sure why those teams would give up their picks either even if they might not be rebuilding. Buying picks I would assume is a lot harder than it once was due to the new CBA.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Considering the team is likely to be radically different in October 2014 and radically different again in October 2015 due to ending contracts of players and there is likely to be a brand new coach, what point is a few playoff games? I find the winning culture statements a crock of poo. Talent and chemistry wins - nothing else. Remember GSWs epic tank in to 2011-12? How'd that work out for their winning culture?

    Personally, I find the idea of trading away key assets (DeRozan, future firsts) beyond stupid. It is horrible asset management.

    If the end result is to get a high draft pick, wouldn't it be better for the long term health of the franchise to get there with their own pick? Lets look at 2 scenarios:

    Playoff run, keep DeRozan, keep Lowry:
    lose Lowry in free agency (demoted year 1, shopped year 2 = goodbye)
    lose DeRozan via trade
    lose own pick via trade to move up
    lose future picks to move up now

    Why? The key pieces to the playoff run are now gone along with future assets. Is a playoff appearance really going to make that much of a difference to Ross and JV?

    Forget 2013-14 playoff run, trade DeRozan, trade Lowry:
    lose Lowry via trade but receive future asset
    lose DeRozan via trade but receive future asset
    keep own pick
    keep all future picks while likely adding others


    The end result is the same: Lowry and DeRozan are gone this summer regardless along with future assets for the sake of a chance at the playoffs now. This is the ultimate, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    This is, and has always been a possibility.
    I said this previously when Blake suggested it on the main page: no, it isn't.

    The major precedent here is the Chris Webber trade (because you have to assume the worst case scenario and Wiggins goes #1), when Golden State traded three #1 future draft picks (1996, 1998 and 2000) plus the #3 pick, Penny Hardaway, to Orlando for Webber, the #1 pick.

    Setting aside the fact that this was expensive to begin with, what made the trade work for Orlando was that they were still getting a top-5 draft talent that everybody considered a can't-miss prospect. (And they were correct; Penny made All-NBA and All-Star by his second season.) Orlando was still rebuilding and needed more star-level assets immediately to aid in their rebuild. Trading Penny is what made the trade work, because GMs have to make their teams as good as quickly as possible to protect their own jobs and Orlando needed to be better right away; they were simply willing to be very slightly less better with Penny than with Webber, because the difference between the two was minimal (and if Penny hadn't been destroyed by injuries over the years, who knows how his career would've gone?).

    Now flash forward to Toronto. What do we have that makes this trade work for the team hypothetically trading Wiggins? Realistically we have nothing, not a goddamn thing. Even if Masai accumulates a bunch of future draft picks (and I would expect him to) no team will do this trade WITHOUT GETTING A STAR OR HOT ROOKIE BACK. JoVal is probably the only player we have that would possibly get this done and frankly he's a longshot to do so. DeMar won't move the needle. Kyle won't move the needle. Amir won't move the needle (although he maybe should a bit).

    None of the bottom-feeder teams are going to take a pupu platter here; they're not going to accept a bunch of midrange picks this year for Wiggins, because that is transcendentally stupid for them to do; getting three or four NBA-level average players for a star is not a good deal, ever, period.

    I know people want to be competitive. I know people want Wiggins. But it really is an either/or situation here. You can have tank and get a shot at Wiggins this year, or you can compete. You simply cannot do both.

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  9. #7
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    Who said I was talking about Wiggins?

    I agree with you for the most part, but I take these discussions very literally.
    What I mean by that, is that it has been and will be a possibility.
    I am 100% sure Masai is considering this avenue.
    He may not feel it is likely, but he sure as shit isn't counting it out.
    Sure
    as
    shit

    You're right - it doesn't make the most sense.
    But since when have trades been sensible?
    Did you see what the Pelicans gave Philly for Jrue last year?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Now flash forward to Toronto. What do we have that makes this trade work for the team hypothetically trading Wiggins? Realistically we have nothing, not a goddamn thing. Even if Masai accumulates a bunch of future draft picks (and I would expect him to) no team will do this trade WITHOUT GETTING A STAR OR HOT ROOKIE BACK. JoVal is probably the only player we have that would possibly get this done and frankly he's a longshot to do so. DeMar won't move the needle. Kyle won't move the needle. Amir won't move the needle (although he maybe should a bit).

    None of the bottom-feeder teams are going to take a pupu platter here; they're not going to accept a bunch of midrange picks this year for Wiggins, because that is transcendentally stupid for them to do; getting three or four NBA-level average players for a star is not a good deal, ever, period.

    I know people want to be competitive. I know people want Wiggins. But it really is an either/or situation here. You can have tank and get a shot at Wiggins this year, or you can compete. You simply cannot do both.
    This it's exactly my point. Accumulating picks and finding the right partner a La Morey is possible but difficult. Chemistry is a big thing as well. I find that this team really work together. Look at teams without them: Nets, Knicks, Kings. Outside of JVal, this team has nothing that excites outside executives.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    Why does this idea strike anybody as a revelation?

    The tunnel vision around here is stunning.

    Masai was the executive of the year.

    This is, and has always been a possibility.
    Interesting you should mention tunnel vision and then say he's the executive of the year. Remember who won that title in 2007?

    And some of us were calling for his head not 5 years later... Don't get caught in that tunnel vision


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    Yes he COULD. Doesn't mean he will or is planning to, also doesn't mean he isn't going to tank.

    Also people keep reiterating that the only way we could do this is by trading valanciunas... Probably true. Don't assume that ujiri won't do exactly that.

    I mean theoretically we could trade Val, a couple future firsts and our pick and grab Wiggins. Maybe even deal salmons expiring to provide some salary relief to a contender and get another pick. Resign Lowry at 8-10m, deal Novak and/or fields to free up more cap and sign a new centre (Greg Monroe could be available).

    Lowry/dd/wiggins/Amir/Monroe

    Not saying this will or even should happen, but it's one of many possibilities. People need to stop pigeonholing our gm and just let things happen.

    I don't think any rockets fans were predicting morey trading for harden and signing Dwight three years ago, so just be patient.

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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    Who said I was talking about Wiggins?

    I agree with you for the most part, but I take these discussions very literally.
    What I mean by that, is that it has been and will be a possibility.
    I am 100% sure Masai is considering this avenue.
    He may not feel it is likely, but he sure as shit isn't counting it out.
    Sure
    as
    shit

    You're right - it doesn't make the most sense.
    But since when have trades been sensible?
    Did you see what the Pelicans gave Philly for Jrue last year?
    The talent in that draft last year was brutal.. dont compare that draft to this upcomming one... i wont think anyone in the 2013 draft will crack the top 5 in 2014.. may be not even top 8

    there is a difference between 100 USD and 100 CND
    Last edited by ball4life; Fri Dec 27th, 2013 at 12:33 PM.

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    The talent in that draft last year was brutal.. dont compare that draft to this upcomming one... i wont think anyone in the 2013 draft will crack the top 5 in 2014.. may be not even top 8

    there is a difference between 100 USD and 100 CND
    Terrible analogy. The current exchange rate is 0.94

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    So there is a difference right? 100 USD = 94 CND? right? correct? LOL

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    So there is a difference right? 100 USD = 94 CND? right? correct? LOL
    First of all your math is wrong.

    Second of all the difference is minuscule. In your analogy you were trying to illustrate the large gap in talent level between the 2013 and 2014 draft. Cut your losses

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    Whatever man!! You get the point... Don't micro analyze forums douchebag


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    Quote Nosike wrote: View Post
    Don't ever call me a douchebag. Stop resorting to name calling when you lose an argument
    Oooo oki sorry you want a medal for your achievement?. Don't make it seem like you argued to pass the bill in the parliament. Sign off boy.... Btw you did correct my mistake thanks for that!


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    Last edited by ball4life; Fri Dec 27th, 2013 at 01:11 PM.

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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    Why does this idea strike anybody as a revelation?

    The tunnel vision around here is stunning.

    Masai was the executive of the year.

    This is, and has always been a possibility.
    And not near the first time it's been raised here. I raised it at least a month ago, possibly 2 months ago.

    People can guess all they want about what assets it would take, and argue the disadvantages of their guesses, but it's all just guessing. Who would have guessed MU would get what he got for Bargnani? Who would have guessed that he would be able to unload Gay for what he got?

    Is this scenario what will happen? None of us has a clue, but it's certainly a possibility, and fits perfectly well with the "establish financial flexibility, collect assets and use them to upgrade to that 'superstar'" everyone pines for. Assuming what kind of deal it would take is assuming one has a clue of the ton of knowledge that MU has about talks with GMs, how they value the Raps' current assets, etc., to say nothing of how this draft board is going to look in a few months.

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    what toronto needs..... is for local boy Wiggans to start making Lindros like noise for Toronto. Other teams need to know he is gonna be a headache wanting to play for toronto.

    That will help his cause if he truly wishes to be in t-dot

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I'm sure MU is considering all his options. Salmons seems to be the perfect asset to trade for a draft pick. He's only guaranteed for $1M next season so if MU wants to take on salary for picks he would be a good guy to move for a cap starved team.
    this is the best thing i have heard all year. i thought salmons' contract made him immovable.

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    I think buying into the late lottery and even mid to late first round could be done. I think anyone with pick 1 - 10 isn't selling unless you bend over backwards and frontwards to get it done

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