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Thread: Could Ujiri possibly be buy our way into the draft rather than tanking?

  1. #21
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    In my opinion no. It is less likely to get high talent draft picks in trades, because GM's will be reluctant to give up on the potential of the players in the draft. I think it's a foolish endeavor to rely on trades for draft picks as the sole means to increase the talent of this team, however I wouldn't mind trading for late round draft picks to supplement our crown jewel (aka franchise player) that we get with our draft pick (through tanking)

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    what toronto needs..... is for local boy Wiggans to start making Lindros like noise for Toronto. Other teams need to know he is gonna be a headache wanting to play for toronto.

    That will help his cause if he truly wishes to be in t-dot
    You mean, the way Kobe did back in 95? He pretty much strong armed his way to the Lakers.

  3. #23
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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    The talent in that draft last year was brutal.. dont compare that draft to this upcomming one... i wont think anyone in the 2013 draft will crack the top 5 in 2014.. may be not even top 8

    there is a difference between 100 USD and 100 CND
    Terrible analogy. The current exchange rate is 0.94
    LMAO, I was thinking the same thing when I read this.. should just see yourself out after an ignorant comment like that o.O

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    Guess no tanking?

    "@MySportsLegion: Report: Cavs, Nets, Lakers, Grizzlies and Raptors all interested in trading for Luol Deng."

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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    JR smith is a raptor killer.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I going to agree with Matt here. If we are going for a top pick this upcoming draft, we need to do it with our own pick. Trading our top guys plus an assortment of picks for a higher pick is just way to risky IMO. Like Nosike said, it would probably take JV and multiple picks, and for me that is just throwing away too much of our future for one guy, that regardless of how good he looks now, is still an unknown NBA player.

    It would seem much wiser to trade our other non-JV assets this season for more picks and prospects, sink in the standings now and draft the top player with whatever pick we land with, then use those assets we have accumulated to start the actual rebuild around JV and whoever we draft.

    I don't think I can support a decision that leverages too much of our immediate future on one high pick. By tanking, you still have the assets you have accumulated to fall back on if that pick you tanked for doesn't turn out to be franchise altering.

  7. #27
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I going to agree with Matt here. If we are going for a top pick this upcoming draft, we need to do it with our own pick. Trading our top guys plus an assortment of picks for a higher pick is just way to risky IMO. Like Nosike said, it would probably take JV and multiple picks, and for me that is just throwing away too much of our future for one guy, that regardless of how good he looks now, is still an unknown NBA player.

    It would seem much wiser to trade our other non-JV assets this season for more picks and prospects, sink in the standings now and draft the top player with whatever pick we land with, then use those assets we have accumulated to start the actual rebuild around JV and whoever we draft.

    I don't think I can support a decision that leverages too much of our immediate future on one high pick. By tanking, you still have the assets you have accumulated to fall back on if that pick you tanked for doesn't turn out to be franchise altering.
    Yes and no. You still have those assets, but their value is drastically lowered. Just look at how people are saying that DD, Amir and Lowry's value are at an all-time high, pumped up by something as simple as this so-called 'fools gold' stretch of good play. Even Ross' is rising, when it looked like he was regressing.

    So, please don't forget that tanking = losing. And losing badly, which means players playing badly. Yes, those same assets, but at pennies on the dollar. Trades are screwed.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Yes and no. You still have those assets, but their value is drastically lowered. Just look at how people are saying that DD, Amir and Lowry's value are at an all-time high, pumped up by something as simple as this so-called 'fools gold' stretch of good play. Even Ross' is rising, when it looked like he was regressing.

    So, please don't forget that tanking = losing. And losing badly, which means players playing badly. Yes, those same assets, but at pennies on the dollar. Trades are screwed.
    a players worth isn't wholly determined by whether the team is winning or losing. you think carmelo would get a lot less money because the knicks are shit right now? you also posted that article about the suns...gortat and scola were clearly on a losing team and yet got great returns in picks.

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    Nobody in their right mind is going to be a seller in this draft if they have pick from 1-10.

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  11. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Yes and no. You still have those assets, but their value is drastically lowered. Just look at how people are saying that DD, Amir and Lowry's value are at an all-time high, pumped up by something as simple as this so-called 'fools gold' stretch of good play. Even Ross' is rising, when it looked like he was regressing.

    So, please don't forget that tanking = losing. And losing badly, which means players playing badly. Yes, those same assets, but at pennies on the dollar. Trades are screwed.
    This doesn't make sense. I'm assuming here that to tank, you cash in on Amir, DD and Lowry. What you get back will be young prospects, picks, and expirings. This is setting up the team to lose. you improve your draft position, but if that player you draft isn't a franchise altering talent, you still have the flexibility created and the other picks/prospects/expirings to fall back on. If you are suggesting that those other assets will be worth little because the team is losing well, that just doesn't make sense.

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  13. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Nothing the Raptors have is anywhere near enough to pry a top 10, let alone top 5, pick in this draft.

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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    Guess no tanking?

    "@MySportsLegion: Report: Cavs, Nets, Lakers, Grizzlies and Raptors all interested in trading for Luol Deng."

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Wounldn't it be funny if CHI actually move Deng and go to tank mode and get guy like Wiggins or Parker and match them along side Rose

  16. #33
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Nobody in their right mind is going to be a seller in this draft if they have pick from 1-10.
    The play will be JV plus a couple of first rounders if you assume Wiggins falls out of the top 3, which may or may not happen. If he's top 3, it will be JV, a couple of first rounders, and another piece like an Amir.

    JV, if he continues to progress like he has since Gay was traded, will be a huge trade chip. A 21-22 year old center with NBA experience, a ready body, and a blossoming career. He would be a top 5 pick in the draft this year if he was in college.

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  18. #34
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    um, ya, so why would he be in play, for a chance to draft, what you already have.

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    Quote fizzle wrote: View Post
    The play will be JV plus a couple of first rounders if you assume Wiggins falls out of the top 3, which may or may not happen. If he's top 3, it will be JV, a couple of first rounders, and another piece like an Amir.

    JV, if he continues to progress like he has since Gay was traded, will be a huge trade chip. A 21-22 year old center with NBA experience, a ready body, and a blossoming career. He would be a top 5 pick in the draft this year if he was in college.
    Oh. ps. welcome aboard Fizzle.....

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    Quote fizzle wrote: View Post
    The play will be JV plus a couple of first rounders if you assume Wiggins falls out of the top 3, which may or may not happen. If he's top 3, it will be JV, a couple of first rounders, and another piece like an Amir.

    JV, if he continues to progress like he has since Gay was traded, will be a huge trade chip. A 21-22 year old center with NBA experience, a ready body, and a blossoming career. He would be a top 5 pick in the draft this year if he was in college.
    You are 100% correct but that would be such a huge gamble.

  21. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I don't think Masai gives up crazy assets just to get Wiggins. Everyone's overvaluing such a move because of the Canadian angle. Its not going to do much of any good long-term if he is handicapped in terms of trying to put a solid core around him. Trading Jonas and multiple picks is a BC type move. "Lets totally screw our ability to build in the future for the most marketable move".

    I think if the Raps end up outside the lottery, Masai is more likely to target a guy in the 4-8 range. Say a Marcus Smart (my hope) if a team with a young PG is drafting around where he's expected to go. Ross, a young SG on a very cheap contract with good upside, plus our own pick could be a very intriguing deal to some teams.

    For example, I'm not sure Utah would keep Burke over Smart, but assuming they would and that they don't get a top 3 pick (rumours are they want Mormon hero Parker), would they consider trading their pick for Ross and our pick? They'd probably re-sign Hayward if they can't draft Parker/Wiggins, and they'll still need another wing, and Ross' shooting and off-ball play should complement their bigs and other perimeter players.

    **Not sure anyone would trade a pick that can be used on Parker or Wiggins. Their upside is too high, and other than maybe Miami, OKC and Indiana, no team is passing on such a forward as those guys project to be in their best cases. The amount of assets you'd have to give up to get a team into serious discussions would lead to a move where they are basically robbing you of everything you need to build around those guys, making it very hard to build a core around them and win.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Dec 29th, 2013 at 02:34 PM.

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  23. #38
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    um, ya, so why would he be in play, for a chance to draft, what you already have.
    I have nothing but a gut feeling that they want the Canadian kid, and BAD. Let me get all conspiracy theory on this and say it may have been floated to Masai BEFORE he even took the role.

    I love what JV has done since Gay was traded, but if the choice is a possible top 3 in the league player who is actually from your city versus a center who could possibly put up 20-12 in his best case scenario, what do you go for?

  24. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote fizzle wrote: View Post
    I have nothing but a gut feeling that they want the Canadian kid, and BAD. Let me get all conspiracy theory on this and say it may have been floated to Masai BEFORE he even took the role.

    I love what JV has done since Gay was traded, but if the choice is a possible top 3 in the league player who is actually from your city versus a center who could possibly put up 20-12 in his best case scenario, what do you go for?
    Giving up JV and picks is too much of a gamble IMO, possible top3 player in the league is a huge possible IMO. Angling for Wiggins this way looks more like a marketing decision than a basketball decision.

  25. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote fizzle wrote: View Post
    I have nothing but a gut feeling that they want the Canadian kid, and BAD. Let me get all conspiracy theory on this and say it may have been floated to Masai BEFORE he even took the role.

    I love what JV has done since Gay was traded, but if the choice is a possible top 3 in the league player who is actually from your city versus a center who could possibly put up 20-12 in his best case scenario, what do you go for?
    But how do you get a team to give up someone they think could be a top 3 player in the league? Especially teams like Utah and PHilly, who have young C prospects already. Would you trade Jonas and multiple picks for a guy who's never played an NBA game, and even if he becomes as good as hoped, you're totally strapped in terms of building around him?

    I don't think Masai sells the farm for Wiggins. That's a very very dangerous move.

    I maintain my stance of if Masai wants to get a pick in the 4-8 range, because I don't see a team with a top 3 pick in this draft (and if they would, only ecause they'd be taking something like 4 or 5 present and future assets from a team), that he will dangle Ross and maybe our own pick.

    And if he wants a Canuck who might fall to our own pick, I've got my eye on Tyler Ennis.

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