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Thread: What is our ceiling?

  1. #1
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    Default What is our ceiling?

    If we keep up this sort of direction, we are looking at Joe Johnson Hawks/Denver Nuggets at best as our ceiling.
    Let's face it:
    League GMs are very savy these days and it will be impossible for MU to pull off a lopsided trade for young assets like he did for Carmelo.
    Unless we tank, or buy some good free agents, I think we are looking at Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks (first or second round exit at best year in year out)
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Given that we're talking about ceiling, not probable level:

    Jonas becomes a superstar a la Dirk (because he's white and european).

    Demar becomes a great defender and takes smart shots.

    Ross becomes an excellent 3 and D guy and uses his athleticism to make great cuts to the basket.

    Amir slowly improves his game and becomes one of the best bench players in the league.

    Raptors sign Parker or Love.

    Able to give Pacers/aging heat tough series and maybe advance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Also, the Hawks could have been better if they hadn't given JJ such a huge contract. The Hawks were more hamstrung by poor financial management a la Colangelo than the fact that JJ wasn't a true superstar.

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    Not to mention that they had some bad draft picks (Shelden Williams and Acie Law with a 5th and 11th overall). What if they come out of those drafts with, say, Rudy Gay and Thad Young, to go along with Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Al Horford?

    It's not like they made disasterously bad decisions, but ultimately it was their own decisions that kept them from reaching their own ceiling thus far. They're definitely a 'winning culture' team, and if they turn that Brooklyn swap into a top 10 pick this year, they could add another star to an already solid team. Depending on what happens with the Heat, they may be one of the top 2 teams in the east in a couple years. They've given themselves a very long window to try to make that step up to contender level.
    tank-agnostic

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Not to mention that they had some bad draft picks (Shelden Williams and Acie Law with a 5th and 11th overall). What if they come out of those drafts with, say, Rudy Gay and Thad Young, to go along with Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Al Horford?

    It's not like they made disasterously bad decisions, but ultimately it was their own decisions that kept them from reaching their own ceiling thus far. They're definitely a 'winning culture' team, and if they turn that Brooklyn swap into a top 10 pick this year, they could add another star to an already solid team. Depending on what happens with the Heat, they may be one of the top 2 teams in the east in a couple years. They've given themselves a very long window to try to make that step up to contender level.
    And never ever forget the ultimate blunder: Marvin Williams over CP3 and Deron Williams. That haunted them for years and is why they remained stuck on the treadmill for so many years.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Dec 31st, 2013 at 08:07 PM.
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    Quote 2kfeen wrote: View Post
    If we keep up this sort of direction, we are looking at Joe Johnson Hawks/Denver Nuggets at best as our ceiling.
    Let's face it:
    League GMs are very savy these days and it will be impossible for MU to pull off a lopsided trade for young assets like he did for Carmelo.
    Unless we tank, or buy some good free agents, I think we are looking at Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks (first or second round exit at best year in year out)
    Thoughts?
    I think the Nuggets comparison might be the best suited, yet it really isn't. The Nuggets over the past couple of seasons had vastly better talent than this one does. At the moment, the guys are playing as a team because of a combination of things - anything from catching teams without their better players to buying into a system and working hard to playing over their heads to teams possibly underestimating them.

    What talent do we have on this team to extract the kind of sum that Ujiri got for Anthony?

    The fact that this team is playing well right now makes me happy. I'd much rather see a Raptors win than a Raptors loss.

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    Conference final!

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And never ever forget the ultimate blunder: Marvin Williams over CP3 and Deron Williams. That haunted them for years and is why they remained stuck on the treadmill for so many years.
    You never know for sure who will turn out better at pro level at draft time.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    NBA FINALS
    RAPTORS VS PORTLAND.

    yep.


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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Truth his, it is kind of pointless to talk about the ceiling for "this team" because the team will undoubtedly look different come playoff time. If MU decides to go for the playoffs, I would expect to see a deal or two made to improve.

    If you are about"our ceiling" ie. the Raptors ceiling, in some longer term sense, then Finals Championship in five years under Masai's leadership would be "our ceiling."

    If you are talking about the absolute best "this" Raptors team could do, I would guess a second round exit.

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    Quote 2kfeen wrote: View Post
    League GMs are very savy these days and it will be impossible for MU to pull off a lopsided trade for young assets like he did for Carmelo.
    Definitely more talent needed. I don't think this team has as much talent as those Hawks. The Raptors have some players who are playing out of their minds right now, playing hard, very healthy, focused. But those players don't have a history of great health or playing hard, or great character. So we'll see. If they prove me wrong, great. But this looks like a borderline 8th seed to me in a normal year. I'd be surprised if Ujiri is done making moves.

    By the way, the Nuggets weren't good because of the Melo trade. They just had a lot of talent, before and after the trade, and Ujiri made multiple good trades and draft picks.
    The Melo trade itself wasn't even lopsided. The Nuggets broke about even, but that was still a big win for Ujiri. Breaking even seemed next to impossible with all the MeloDrama going on.
    Also, he got the Knicks' 2014 pick in the process so maybe that deal does become lopsided soon, if the Knicks keep losing.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    This season, with this roster, 2nd round of the playoffs.

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    This season :
    Without anymore trades:
    3rd in the east and all the way to game 6 or 7 in the 2nd round of the play offs.

    Trade to bring more talent while moving Novak, Filed, Hayes contracts:
    East Final and maybe NBA final.

    Next Season:
    With continues internal growth of the Big Val, Ross, DD, Amir and few small changes, we can even think NBA championship threat.

    Season after that:
    With our financial flexibility and our proven competitive record for 2 years, getting FA like Durant would be easy. So I say, NBA Championship ...

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    This season, with this roster, 2nd round of the playoffs.
    This sounds about right!

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    Essentially, we are too good to tank and not enough to take on Indiana, Heat.
    Are we just a 2nd round exit max this year, and a basement team next year?

    We are lucky this year that Chicago lost D-Rose, Brooklyn and NY are not up to expectations.
    We are not that good.
    Next year, we are looking at Indiana, Heat, rejuvenated Sixers (Noel, MCW, picks) and Chicago w. D-Rose back.

    We may play out of our minds this year, but that would guarantee just a mid 2014 pick and next year, we would be roughly 7th seed.

    Unless we struck gold through a trade (like Harden & Bledsoe trades), we are probably going to look like
    Andre Iguodala 76ers, a perennial 8th seed, .500 squad.

    I say we keep Derozan and JV and Ross and maybe Fields (hard to move him cause of his contract and injury status, but I like his attitude). The rest should be moved and maybe we can get some struggling young assets ready to break out.

  17. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote 2kfeen wrote: View Post
    Essentially, we are too good to tank and not enough to take on Indiana, Heat.
    Are we just a 2nd round exit max this year, and a basement team next year?

    We are lucky this year that Chicago lost D-Rose, Brooklyn and NY are not up to expectations.
    We are not that good.
    Next year, we are looking at Indiana, Heat, rejuvenated Sixers (Noel, MCW, picks) and Chicago w. D-Rose back.

    We may play out of our minds this year, but that would guarantee just a mid 2014 pick and next year, we would be roughly 7th seed.

    Unless we struck gold through a trade (like Harden & Bledsoe trades), we are probably going to look like
    Andre Iguodala 76ers, a perennial 8th seed, .500 squad.

    I say we keep Derozan and JV and Ross and maybe Fields (hard to move him cause of his contract and injury status, but I like his attitude). The rest should be moved and maybe we can get some struggling young assets ready to break out.
    We are a second round exit this year, most likely.

    But who's to say JV doesn't improve along with Ross. We have some pretty good cap space, so then what?

    If we're talking ceiling, these players have a lot of room to grow.

  18. #17
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I dont see Chicago getting back to the form they were in prior to Rose's first injury, with or without him next year. They need to move Boozer and Deng IMO, and maybe even Noah and start a rebuild. Shake things up, try and get a decent pick this upcoming draft, then likely have a poor season next year and then back to competing the year after with their picks, Rose, Butler and Gibson as their core.

  19. #18
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    As for the Raps, we are clearly the 4th best team in the East, and given Horford's injury, we could realistically get the 3rd seed. We should be able to pull out a 1st round victory, but we would likely lose to the Pacers or Heat in 5 or maybe 6 in the second round. The defense this team is playing right now makes us a dangerous opponent against any team. No team is looking forward to playing the Raps anymore.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    This season :
    Without anymore trades:
    3rd in the east and all the way to game 6 or 7 in the 2nd round of the play offs.

    Trade to bring more talent while moving Novak, Filed, Hayes contracts:
    East Final and maybe NBA final.

    Next Season:
    With continues internal growth of the Big Val, Ross, DD, Amir and few small changes, we can even think NBA championship threat.

    Season after that:
    With our financial flexibility and our proven competitive record for 2 years, getting FA like Durant would be easy. So I say, NBA Championship ...
    Get me my star NOW

  21. #20
    Raptors Republic Starter rapfan10's Avatar
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    This team is being built like mu nuggets. (No stars, bunch if guys buying in...) But the style of play is on opposite side of spectrum. Nuggets were fast pace team. Raptors trying to emulate Indiana with traditional bigs, development, etc.

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