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  • #16
    Derozan might be a volume scorer but he's not a black hole like Rudy was
    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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    • #17
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Espn does not hold DeRozan in high regard
      akashsingh wrote: View Post
      espn? how about everyone except biased raptor's fans? I am sick and tired of putting this guy on a pedestal, when he is a non defending, mediocre shooting, average efficiency, selfish (yes he is the most selfish player on our team now that rudy gay is gone) ball hog.

      This is an excellent article, btw.
      This is a joke. First of all there is no way in hell you can call Demar a ball hog since Rudy has been gone that alone proves to me you don't watch the games.

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      • #18
        JawsGT wrote: View Post
        The whole idea of Derozan being an inefficient black hole is bogus, and anyone that has watched the Raps this year knows that. His efficiency isn't as good as I'd like, I'll admit. But I just don't get this black hole nonsense. He moves the ball as willingly as any other Raptor.
        He still takes waaaay too many long 2's and some of them are questionable at best, in my opinion.

        DD 2012-13:

        0-8ft 401 attempts .561
        8-16ft 261 attempts .395
        16-24 449 attempts .414
        24+ 120 attempts .283

        Thus far in 2013-14

        0-8ft 133 attempts .594
        8-16ft 106 attempts .396
        16-24 159 attempts .371
        24+ 99 attempts .313

        37.7% of shots in 12-13 were long 2s
        31.9% of shots in 13-14 are long 2s but making at less of a rate (37.1% which is good for 82nd among guards in the NBA).


        I'd love to see him put up a shot chart much like Harden or Stephenson where the 0-8 and 3 attempts are 2-4x 8-16 and 16-24 attempts.


        Don't get me wrong, although many will haha, he has definitely shown improvement in his game.... mainly in creating for others and getting to the foul line. However his rebounding is still average at best, he can't handle a double, his defense is shaky. Yeah, he is putting up more points but he is doing it on nearly 3 extra attempts per game. Unfortunately since Gay left he is being exposed in his efficiency and he has really cooled form 3 after a hot start. He is not a #1 scoring option. Not sure how the Raptors get one either. He's shown he is a great Robin from a scoring perspective.

        Anyways, let the typical "Matt52 hates DeRozan" begin. Criticism, especially when founded, is not hate, gents.

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        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          He still takes waaaay too many long 2's and some of them are questionable at best, in my opinion.

          DD 2012-13:

          0-8ft 401 attempts .561
          8-16ft 261 attempts .395
          16-24 449 attempts .414
          24+ 120 attempts .283

          Thus far in 2013-14

          0-8ft 133 attempts .594
          8-16ft 106 attempts .396
          16-24 159 attempts .371
          24+ 99 attempts .313

          37.7% of shots in 12-13 were long 2s
          31.9% of shots in 13-14 are long 2s but making at less of a rate (37.1% which is good for 82nd among guards in the NBA).


          I'd love to see him put up a shot chart much like Harden or Stephenson where the 0-8 and 3 attempts are 2-4x 8-16 and 16-24 attempts.


          Don't get me wrong, although many will haha, he has definitely shown improvement in his game.... mainly in creating for others and getting to the foul line. However his rebounding is still average at best, he can't handle a double, his defense is shaky. Yeah, he is putting up more points but he is doing it on nearly 3 extra attempts per game. Unfortunately since Gay left he is being exposed in his efficiency and he has really cooled form 3 after a hot start. He is not a #1 scoring option. Not sure how the Raptors get one either. He's shown he is a great Robin from a scoring perspective.

          Anyways, let the typical "Matt52 hates DeRozan" begin. Criticism, especially when founded, is not hate, gents.
          The Pierce for DD and Fields thing was kinda interesting especially if they throw in Bogdanovic
          “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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          • #20
            p00ka wrote: View Post
            Who the f... cares, except those grasping at straws? It's effing ESPN, sheeeesh. But why aren't all you pro analytics people talking about analystics superman's Hollinger Power Rankings that have the Raps in 11th in the entire league? Oh wait, that doesn't fit the narrative, does it?



            This old "non defending", blah,blah,blah, only one dimension stuff is outdated hogwash, that can only be explained as being from people who don't watch the games, or don't have a clue what they're seeing, or need to cling to it because the reality makes many past proclamations look stupid.
            ah good of you to call me out on hogwash (which is incorrect by the way), when you yourself do the same right back by not providing any evidence. And then you go on to add insults. You truly are a piece of work.

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            • #21
              ah biased raptors fans gotta love them.

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              • #22
                akashsingh wrote: View Post
                ah biased raptors fans gotta love them.
                hahahaha, very true.

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                • #23
                  akashsingh wrote: View Post
                  ah good of you to call me out on hogwash (which is incorrect by the way), when you yourself do the same right back by not providing any evidence. And then you go on to add insults. You truly are a piece of work.
                  So you get to make grandiose sweeping comments with little to no evidence and then demand that p00ka must provide evidence to prove his case? Huh? How does that work? Also, you claim that this is a well written article, but the crux of p00ka's point is that the article lacks logic. The rationale to trade Demar is dated. Should Demar be traded? For a net positive, of course. But this nonsense of moving Demar for an old decrepit shadow of a basketball player because he's an expiring when he's in the same division, and the result would improve a direct competitor in the very near future is ludicrous.

                  As they stand now, the Nets and Knicks will be bad for a long, long time. Both have traded their futures away. Why should the Raptors help them? That's 2 less teams to worry about. No expiring contract is worth making a team in the same division better. None. And if they're smart, no team in the league will offer them a "winning" trade. These are 2 teams with lots of money, in ideal markets -- why help them repair their teams and then have to compete against them for free agents?

                  Even if you are anti-Demar, pro-tank any trades that help division rivals, and make the Raptors worse are short-sighted at best. DeMar is improving -- yes he still takes shots from the wrong parts of the court, but when you include the amounts of fouls he draws, and his improved assist rate in the games since Rudy left he is becoming a valuable piece. If the current trend continues he will be one of the first players to improve under analytic statistics this late in his development. Maybe it's a fluke, but the article is still rubbish, poorly researched, and propped up nonsense.

                  How can a person write that no one knows what Masai is doing at the front of an article and then conclude that he's going to ship out a particular player in the conclusion? That wouldn't even pass for a basic high school paper. At every level this is article is rubbish.

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                  • #24
                    Wake the fuck up people.

                    Derozan still has to take a lot of long twos (contested often times) because he's the number one scoring option on the team and has to be the bailout guy offensively a lot of the time. You put Ross in that role and he'll struggle to shoot 40% from the field.

                    Derozan is meant to be a secondary or tertiary scorer and is paid as such. For now we're going to have to deal with lower efficiency than we'd like until we get a legit number one guy in here. It's not like derozan would need to or want to take bad shots if Lebron played here. Stick him on the clippers where defenses are looking to stop Blake and Paul first and you'd see his efficiency rise.

                    Just look at Gordon Hayward. Based on his true shooting percentages a lot of you derozan detractors would call him a checker. This is a guy who was hyper efficient last year. So what happened? Is he in a 30 game shooting slump? Or is it because defenses are trying to stop him first and foremost now instead of Jefferson and millsap?

                    I love advanced stats but they HAVE to be used with context. If not I could reason that trading derozan for Shane battier would make this team infinitely better.

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                    • #25
                      Just to add a bit more. A big part of the reason why Ross is finally showing his ability to shoot lights out is because he can actually play his role of spot up shooter. Why? He no longer plays with the scrubs we have on the bench. Now the bulk of the time he's on the court teams are looking to stop derozan (hell Okc was doubling demar with two wings), Lowry, and even Jonas before him and it just makes his life that much easier.

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                      • #26
                        well i'm more of the teamplaying basketball team types, and I believe that with the simple aquiring of vasquez the raptors where winning in the gay trade.

                        nevertheless since raptors are on the rebuild, it doesn't mather wether you get a black hole type of player or a teamplayer, since the plan is to get rid of the high priced contracts to start hiring the right guys.

                        finally, i'll be really sad to see johnson or lowry to leave...

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                        • #27
                          Howard Beck just posted a similar article on the Raps, which I think is much better than the Insider one:

                          http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...rudy-gay-trade

                          Here's the thing about national US media "finally" paying attention to the Raptors - that's what happens when you win in OKC. That's all the issue ever is - you have to be a winning team to get national coverage.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • #28
                            DD has no effect on the teams ability to win. The win streak we are seeing are from Lowry+Amir.

                            I'm not going to rehash it as I've provided evidence before, DD isn't that good of a player. Period. There is a reason why EVERY analytical guru out there dislikes DeMar...

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                            • #29
                              DD draws double teams we've seen it every game its opened up possessions for Amir to crash the middle and Ross to get his shots off as well as more lanes for Lowry...... DeMar is very important to our wins because he has been passing the ball with all the attention he gets.

                              Dont be so disrespectful.... Hes as much a part of the teams success as the next guy,

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                              • #30
                                Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                                The Pierce for DD and Fields thing was kinda interesting especially if they throw in Bogdanovic
                                There was a time when I'd probably jump at that.

                                DeRozan, for his flaws, is worth more than a salary dump.... or at least I hope so.

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