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Thread: So...Is Casey a Good Coach or a Bad Coach?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Puffer's Avatar
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    Default So...Is Casey a Good Coach or a Bad Coach?

    Just throwing this out there.

    Did Casey suddenly have an epiphany the day that Rudy left? Or was he coaching the same way he is now, but players are starting to listen? Or was he coaching based on the talent he had on the team before the trade?

    Doug Smith always used to say "Coaches get too much credit when a team wins, and too much blame when they lose."

    Could it be that Casey is a bad coach, but the new players are of such an elite talent that they can ignore his instructions and win the games based on their own skills?

    Inquiring minds want to know what the Republic thinks.

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    Raptors Republic Starter b2kelly's Avatar
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    His coaching had improved as of late. I noticed him using time outs to control flow much better the last few games. Time will tell.. he needs to move off the salmons express though.. I really think coaching is a learning process for him though... ideally id like to see someone who has already figured out the job with more experience run this squad and keep casey as an assistant.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Casey has no Cojones. When BC was here, it was give the ball the Bargs come hell or high water, then Give the ball to Rudy come hell or high water, it would have been give the ball to Demar come Hell or High water but this front office hasn't Claimed anyone on the roster a superstar.

    I'll give him this, he's a lot better with the timeouts and I'm sure he said all the right things to the players before but he doesn't have the cojones to apply it, Masaï is gonna have to remove every big ego for him. I posted this a while back the first thing this team needs is a coach with the balls to tell Rudy he ain't shit. We don't have one but we have a GM who could kick him out.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    Casey has no Cojones. When BC was here, it was give the ball the Bargs come hell or high water, then Give the ball to Rudy come hell or high water, it would have been give the ball to Demar come Hell or High water but this front office hasn't Claimed anyone on the roster a superstar.

    I'll give him this, he's a lot better with the timeouts and I'm sure he said all the right things to the players before but he doesn't have the cojones to apply it, Masaï is gonna have to remove every big ego for him. I posted this a while back the first thing this team needs is a coach with the balls to tell Rudy he ain't shit. We don't have one but we have a GM who could kick him out.
    Also definitely agree with the sentiment here (overuse of cojones aside ). Managing egos and challenging guys the right way is a huge part of being a good head coach. Have to be able to challenge stars with big egos to get better and play for the team. Have to nurture young guys trying to find their footing in the league so that their egos/confidence aren't damaged.

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    Raptors Republic Starter JawsGT's Avatar
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    This is a good question. It's hard to believe that Casey was coaching the same pre Rudy trade, because if thats the case, then Rudy has to be the worst teammate possible. I believe the loss of Rudy has had a greater impact on this team than the addition of the SAC players, but I'll give them credit because they have been playing well and have had a positive impact on the team. How much of this is Casey is certainly questionable, but maybe it is just a matter of players buying into what the coaching staff have been preaching all along, and if so, maybe many of us were a little hard on the coach through the early struggles.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Just throwing this out there.

    Did Casey suddenly have an epiphany the day that Rudy left? Or was he coaching the same way he is now, but players are starting to listen? Or was he coaching based on the talent he had on the team before the trade?

    Doug Smith always used to say "Coaches get too much credit when a team wins, and too much blame when they lose."

    Could it be that Casey is a bad coach, but the new players are of such an elite talent that they can ignore his instructions and win the games based on their own skills?

    Inquiring minds want to know what the Republic thinks.
    I think Casey's a pretty average coach. He's been coaching better than he has in his other 2 years here, or even his time in Minny, the last 10 games or so.

    One of his biggest flaws had always been managing rotations in games, and related to that, consistency in giving guys roles and having solid accountability. It was a problem in Minny too. And judging by post-trade rotations, it probably has had a lot to do with a lack of decent depth (in both situations). When there's a big dropoff after his top 5-6 players, he tries so many random combinations trying to find something that works, but the real problem was that he never seems to and thus every night he could play 11-12 guys and rarely in consistent situations so guys are also clearly not comfortable.

    This was especially frustrating to see since we have young guys like Jonas and Ross who need consistent roles and usage to get used to the game, which includes letting them play through some mistakes. He doesn't seem to particularly like letting young guys do that. This is my biggest concern with Casey, because a young guy losing confidence for one long enough stretch can completely derail their development. It's not about playing youngsters 30+ minutes...It's about even if you just give a guy 12 minutes a game, that he knows what's expected of him and that he can make certain mistakes without being benched for the whole game. If a guy screws up badly in his first couple of minutes, you don't have to glue him to the bench, even if you feel you have to pull him. Take him out, explain the problem, and put him back out there, whether it's right away or when his next normal stint would come.

    Another problem he had was Xs and Os on offence. I think hiring Nurse and moving Gay have helped a lot there. Nurse was hired to help revamp the offence, and if the post-trade style is what he was trying to help Casey implement, it's been a success. Not giving all credit to Nurse, because obviously Casey has to implement it, but I'm just underscoring the fact that coaching is a team thing too, and you need good assistants to help you since very few coaches are excellent at every aspect of their job.

    I haven't been paying enough attention to out-of-timeout plays (and other inbounds plays) recently. But that has been a problem in the past.

    The handling of youngsters has so far been my biggest issue with him and the biggest reason I have wanted a change. We can debate what the primary goal of a coach should be...But to me it's always development. You can't build a sustainable winner without being able to consistently develop your young players (or even older guys, eg. Diaw in SAS getting his career back on track). Of course a coach should try to win every game, but in the long-term, you can't maintain success if you're unable to keep developing guys. And it builds an atmosphere players want to be in because they enjoy it and it's good for their careers. *Especially in terms of regular season coaching. Playoff coaching is a whole different beast.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Jan 1st, 2014 at 11:22 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    He's a lame duck coach and he got 15 guys to buy in after trading their supposed superstar. If that's not good, I don't know what is.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    He's a lame duck coach and he got 15 guys to buy in after trading their supposed superstar. If that's not good, I don't know what is.
    Well the thing is, coaches, much like players, are rarely truly great. There aren't a lot of Jacksons or Popovichs out there. Some guys can look good or bad depending on the situation they're in. And some guys are good, but not actually that much better than other options.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Well the thing is, coaches, much like players, are rarely truly great. There aren't a lot of Jacksons or Popovichs out there. Some guys can look good or bad depending on the situation they're in. And some guys are good, but not actually that much better than other options.
    Agreed. I was just trying to answer a direct thread question. But in the pantheon of great coaches, Casey doesn't make the list. Heck, doesn't really matter. We got Sloan who never won COY, HOF George Karl getting fired after winning it and Lionel Hopkins without a job.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I think Casey is a good coach at coaching defense, and an okay coach over all. I just don't think he was as bad a coach as was made out to be when the team was losing. The influx of good bench players has really helped the team.

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    I will give him credit for playing TRoss and JV more especially in the fourth quarter. That said I don't think he is great coach. hopefully MU will take another direction next year even if they make the playoffs.

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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    I will give him credit for playing TRoss and JV more especially in the fourth quarter. That said I don't think he is great coach. hopefully MU will take another direction next year even if they make the playoffs.
    I dont give him credit for this at all. He FINALLY realized that he should give it a try ... way too late. He still doesnt believe in TR in 4th, which makes no sense.

    Bottom line, hes a nice guy, a solid motivator, but a pretty bad coach. No idea about clock management (have we forgot about the charlotte (i think) game where he just let them run out the clock and didnt foul down by 1? All the inbounds play turnovers? The nonsensical rotations?

    Ya, hes gotten better - mostly because hes been forced to play players he should have played all along. But make no mistake, hes a bad coach.

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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    I dont give him credit for this at all. He FINALLY realized that he should give it a try ... way too late. He still doesnt believe in TR in 4th, which makes no sense.

    Bottom line, hes a nice guy, a solid motivator, but a pretty bad coach. No idea about clock management (have we forgot about the charlotte (i think) game where he just let them run out the clock and didnt foul down by 1? All the inbounds play turnovers? The nonsensical rotations?

    Ya, hes gotten better - mostly because hes been forced to play players he should have played all along. But make no mistake, hes a bad coach.

    Who gets credit for our massive improvement on the defence ? We are #9 in the NBA now and we were almost at the bottom of the league.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Who gets credit for our massive improvement on the defence ? We are #9 in the NBA now and we were almost at the bottom of the league.
    Ya - I would give him some credit for that for sure. He is a solid defensive coach.

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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    I dont give him credit for this at all. He FINALLY realized that he should give it a try ... way too late. He still doesnt believe in TR in 4th, which makes no sense.

    Bottom line, hes a nice guy, a solid motivator, but a pretty bad coach. No idea about clock management (have we forgot about the charlotte (i think) game where he just let them run out the clock and didnt foul down by 1? All the inbounds play turnovers? The nonsensical rotations?

    Ya, hes gotten better - mostly because hes been forced to play players he should have played all along. But make no mistake, hes a bad coach.
    Makes no sense, unless you're him and your job is to win games, which he's doing,,,,,,,, with consistent strong 4th qtr play. Damn, 3rd in the league for 4th qtr differential, but what he does makes no sense? Huh? You think Ross would push them to 1st? No.

    Perhaps it makes no sense if Casey was trying to cater to your vision of what Ross needs, but let's be real. Your vision is based on far less NBA expertise, and far less knowledge of Ross's development, than his. In any case, it's been making sense if his job is to win games, and Salmons' better defense has been helping do just that.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Makes no sense, unless you're him and your job is to win games, which he's doing,,,,,,,, with consistent strong 4th qtr play. Damn, 3rd in the league for 4th qtr differential, but what he does makes no sense? Huh? You think Ross would push them to 1st? No.

    Perhaps it makes no sense if Casey was trying to cater to your vision of what Ross needs, but let's be real. Your vision is based on far less NBA expertise, and far less knowledge of Ross's development, than his. In any case, it's been making sense if his job is to win games, and Salmons' better defense has been helping do just that.
    Fair enough .. if you think hes a good coach, then youre entitled to that opinion. I would just point out that all of his NBA experience and knowledge of player development had JV's ass nailed to the bench in the 4th quarter until recently, despite him clearly being one of our most productive players. All of that experience thought it made sense to not foul at Charlotte when we were down and they just ran out the shot clock and ended the game, and all that experience routinely screws up late game clock management and fouling and has come up with some of the most nonsensical rotations Ive ever seen this year (thank god hes realized that it makes sense to keep KL in with the 2nd unit for some continuity).

    So ya - he has WAAAAAY more experience than I do (I think that goes without saying, but ill repeat it for your benefit), but he sure makes some dumb decisions despite it.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Makes no sense, unless you're him and your job is to win games, which he's doing,,,,,,,, with consistent strong 4th qtr play. Damn, 3rd in the league for 4th qtr differential, but what he does makes no sense? Huh? You think Ross would push them to 1st? No.

    Perhaps it makes no sense if Casey was trying to cater to your vision of what Ross needs, but let's be real. Your vision is based on far less NBA expertise, and far less knowledge of Ross's development, than his. In any case, it's been making sense if his job is to win games, and Salmons' better defense has been helping do just that.
    Well ... last night we finally saw it. I have a feeling that we will be seeing more and more of TR down the stretch. The reality is, hes just a much, much better player than the alternatives. Casey seems to be improving in many ways - rotations are better, more court time for the young guys, timeouts are better and the team is playing super hard.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    I'm just glad he's chosen to start T.Ross over Salmons. He may not be here next year, but at least he's shown he's starting to get over his vets-or-nothing mindset.
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    I'm just glad he's chosen to start T.Ross over Salmons. He may not be here next year, but at least he's shown he's starting to get over his vets-or-nothing mindset.
    true .. but still not in the 4th. inexcusable

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    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    Neither, he's just not good enough.

    I don't like how he is clearly so defense oriented in all things.
    Reactive would be another way of putting it.
    He's finally come around to doing the things he should have been doing all season...but why did it take so long?

    Like the lack of late-game trust in JV - did Valanciunas really get that much better in a few weeks that Casey can trust him now? No, Casey was wrong. He stunted JV's development (as well as Ross').

    He does fine at running a functional team, as we're seeing, but he clearly doesn't have the ability to get the most out of a relatively weak roster (Brad Stevens), and I suspect he doesn't the ability to get the most out of a good roster. I almost feel like the players wouldn't respect him if he were to take over on some of the better teams.

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