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Thread: Masai speaks! (And nothing is clear yet!)

  1. #101
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Why is everybody so obsessed with knowing the 5 year plan right now?
    Because people are fans. It's a natural thing. People get attached to players -- or to the opposite, keep their distance because they are in tank mindset. For example, do I buy a Lowry jersey or not? I never considered it till lately because i thought surely he wouldn't stay around long. Also, I didn't like his attitude. But now... it's like Roosevelt said, he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch, and it looks like it may stay that way.

    The management is smart to keep their options open, and fans are just being fans by asking the questions.
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sat Jan 4th, 2014 at 09:12 AM.

  2. #102
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    That's not what I said. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. I'm saying it's preferable to get the Afflalos of the league as opposed to waiting for the Ross types to improve (which may never happen). A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. If they decide to tank, then keep the Ross types because they may achieve something meaningful in the future. When you're going around beating up on the best teams in the league it's time to think about accomplishing something now.
    Perfect plan tomorrow sounds better.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

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  3. #103
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    The biggest advantage Afflalo brings is his defense which is better than DeMars, but our D is pretty good with DD right now, so I don't think a trade makes sense. Efficiency aside, DD is the better scorer which is where we need some improvement right now. If win now is the goal you keep DD and only trade him for a better scorer.

  4. #104
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    You haven't seen Afflalo play because if you had, you would know that the kid is a very underrated player and yes, you would know that he's better than DeRozan. You can say the same thing about me not watching DeRozan all you want. The Raps games are on cable and I watch all of them. I also have something called NBA League Pass, so I get to watch all the other games in the league and have had it for quite some time now.

    Listen, I appreciate what DeRozan does for this team for what he makes, but he ain't better than Afflalo. Sorry.

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    This is such a joke. This is why toronto fans are considered stupid. Demar is 24 years old on what i wish i couldn't say but on a good WINNING team. There is a strong chance he is an all-star. Afflalo is 29 i believe putting up like 1 more ppg on a shitty orlando team who has no scorers and Afflalo can do whatever he wants. Hes not a bad player but isn't even close to Demar. Demar isn;t near his ceiling while affalo is at his ceiling . Look at his numbers in Denver when he was on a decent team. They were a good role player. Get your facts straight before you disrespect my boy Demar like that.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Burnit482 wrote: View Post
    This is such a joke. This is why toronto fans are considered stupid. Demar is 24 years old on what i wish i couldn't say but on a good WINNING team. There is a strong chance he is an all-star. Afflalo is 29 i believe putting up like 1 more ppg on a shitty orlando team who has no scorers and Afflalo can do whatever he wants. Hes not a bad player but isn't even close to Demar. Demar isn;t near his ceiling while affalo is at his ceiling . Look at his numbers in Denver when he was on a decent team. They were a good role player. Get your facts straight before you disrespect my boy Demar like that.
    I'm gonna start off by saying that personal attacks will not be tolerated. Consider it a warning. One more like that and it will result in a ban from the site.

    Secondly, I'm pretty sick of doing these Afflalo v. Demar comparisons. I realize that this is a Raptors supporter board, but I'm going to be an objective poster.
    A lot of you that are bashing Afflalo have no clue as to how solid of a player he is. And it's a shame. You bash him because he's 28, you bash him because he plays for the Magic, and that's just wrong. He's a smart, savvy player. I'd go as far as to say that he's an older, poorer version of James Harden.

    Never once did I bash DeRozan, but some of you took it as a personal crusade to "pump his tires", singing his virtues as though I have never seen a Raptors game in my life. Is Demar a solid player? Yes. But is he that good of a player to make the ASG? Absolutely not. I would take Lowry over him because Lowry makes much more of an impact than Demar does. At the moment, Demar is just simply a volume scorer, and doesn't affect the game in any other way. Sorry to say it but it's true. The one knock I do have about Demar is that he has all this God given athletic ability, has amazing physical attributes, but his basketball IQ is so incredibly low, it seems that he can't put everything together. You're always left wanting more, and expecting more. If he had the ball IQ to go with everything, we wouldn't be having this discussion about who is better between him and Afflalo, because Demar would be one of the best players in the game.

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  7. #106
    Raptors Republic Rookie ST1R's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    OK, so if there's no more tank, then they should try to bring in veteran players to improve the team now. No reason to worry more about 5 years down the road.
    It has to be a mix of present/future when continuing to build the team this year. If you can bring in veterans for expiring contracts that's great but I wouldnt deal picks or assets like Ross to do so. Personally I would stand pat and make decisions on guys like Lowry in the summer instead of making deals now, based on a 12 game stretch.

  8. #107
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    What would be the point of trading Ross for Affalo? or Derozan for Afflalo? To win one more game in the second round of the playoffs? The trade doesn't move the needle enough to make it worth the difference in age. Derozan for Affalo is a pretty lateral trade (even if he is better). The only trade I would consider is something like Ross and Salmons for Affalo and a draft pick, although I just don't see why orlando would do that.

    Also I'm pretty sure that Mango said he probably wouldn't do a deal either. He's just contending that Affalo>Demar.
    I don't know of anyone that would want Afflalo for Ross and a scrub (even if it was Fields).. but DD for Afflalo is actually interesting. First the trade will never be done since MU will have to alter the team's chemistry. But even with the chemistry being altered I would still do it. Short term I don't think it does anything. May even lose 1 or 2 more games due to chemistry.. but in the long term I think its a better trade.

    DD has 4 years on his contract at $9.5M per. Afflalo has 3 years (or 2 if he uses his player option) at $7.5M. So that's a saving of $2M for the next two years, and an additional $9.5M in year 4 (or year 3).

    If Afflalo (even at 28) is basically a wash with DD from a talent point of view, than from a long term point of view with the way contracts line up I think its a good deal.

    And Afflalo will only be 31/32 when his contract ends. That's still a young player in the current NBA.

  9. #108
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I'm gonna start off by saying that personal attacks will not be tolerated. Consider it a warning. One more like that and it will result in a ban from the site.

    Secondly, I'm pretty sick of doing these Afflalo v. Demar comparisons. I realize that this is a Raptors supporter board, but I'm going to be an objective poster.
    A lot of you that are bashing Afflalo have no clue as to how solid of a player he is. And it's a shame. You bash him because he's 28, you bash him because he plays for the Magic, and that's just wrong. He's a smart, savvy player. I'd go as far as to say that he's an older, poorer version of James Harden.

    Never once did I bash DeRozan, but some of you took it as a personal crusade to "pump his tires", singing his virtues as though I have never seen a Raptors game in my life. Is Demar a solid player? Yes. But is he that good of a player to make the ASG? Absolutely not. I would take Lowry over him because Lowry makes much more of an impact than Demar does. At the moment, Demar is just simply a volume scorer, and doesn't affect the game in any other way. Sorry to say it but it's true. The one knock I do have about Demar is that he has all this God given athletic ability, has amazing physical attributes, but his basketball IQ is so incredibly low, it seems that he can't put everything together. You're always left wanting more, and expecting more. If he had the ball IQ to go with everything, we wouldn't be having this discussion about who is better between him and Afflalo, because Demar would be one of the best players in the game.

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    You're just as much a part of this as everyone else was. You're speaking like your opinion is the only one that is acceptable, anything else is absurd.

    Afflalo is having a break out year. You said "Demar isn't nor ever will be as good as Afflalo".

    Who's to say Demar won't have one. He's 4 years younger.

    Not to add that this season MIGHT be a flash in the pan.
    Last edited by stooley; Sat Jan 4th, 2014 at 01:51 PM.

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  11. #109
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    You're just as much a part of this as everyone else was. You're speaking like your opinion is the only one that is acceptable, anything else is absurd.

    Afflalo is having a break out year. You said "Demar isn't nor ever will be as good as Afflalo".

    Who's to say Demar won't have one. He's 4 years younger.

    Not to add that this season MIGHT be a flash in the pan.
    I will agree that I'm a part of this discussion as much as anyone else, but never I said that my opinion was right and everyone else's was wrong, so let's get that straight. The poster I gave a warning to got one not because he / she disagreed with my point of view, but because of a personal attack. Personal attacks have become somewhat normal around here as of late, and they will not be tolerated. We suggest that if you need a refresher on the rules here, pm me and I will send you the rules. This forum is meant to be a place to exchange ideas without any insults. Let's keep it that way.

    This will be my last point in regards to Afflalo versus DeRozan. A lot of people on here don't know about Afflalo, and understandably so, because most here only watch the Raptors and this is afterall, a Raptors forum. And as such, a lot of people are going to be pro-DeRozan. I understand that. However, people are very quick to dismiss Afflalo and how good of a player he is. All they'll say is that he's 28 and he plays on a poor Orlando team. They don't see that he's a fantastic player, he's a team player and at this moment, is a better player than DeRozan. You can't dismiss a guy simply because you've never seen him play.
    Is DeRozan a solid player? Absolutely. He's good value for his production. As a Raptors fan, I hope he improves. And I never said that DeRozan would never be as good as Afflalo. I welcome you to show me where I said that. Thanks.



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  12. #110
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    This will be my last point in regards to Afflalo versus DeRozan. A lot of people on here don't know about Afflalo, and understandably so, because most here only watch the Raptors and this is afterall, a Raptors forum. And as such, a lot of people are going to be pro-DeRozan. I understand that.

    However, people are very quick to dismiss Afflalo and how good of a player he is.

    All they'll say is that he's 28 and he plays on a poor Orlando team.

    They don't see that he's a fantastic player, he's a team player and at this moment, is a better player than DeRozan. You can't dismiss a guy simply because you've never seen him play.

    Is DeRozan a solid player? Absolutely. He's good value for his production. As a Raptors fan, I hope he improves. And I never said that DeRozan would never be as good as Afflalo. I welcome you to show me where I said that. Thanks.
    Bold 1: I agree

    Bold 2: My apologies, you didn't ever say that. I thought I'd replied to you but that was a different poster.

    The most valid criticisms that I've seen of any potential move to incorporate Afflalo are:

    We have a young team that is looking to peak in a couple of years, is it sensible to trade for a guy who's peaking now?

    Afflalo is having a career year with a PER a full 6 points higher than last year. DD was the better player last year.

    DD may very well continue to improve, and its hard to imagine him declining in the coming years. He was drafted as a major project and seems to be advancing slowly but steadily.

    Finally, there's something to be said for team continuity and chemistry.

  13. #111
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    I honestly don't see the reason to trade Ross or DeMar. We should be be building our talent around this core. Trading for Afflalo would bring marginal improvement. I will agree he's a better player than both players now, but I would love to see where our two wings are at by the 28. DeMar isn't that far off of his numbers, and we know how hard he works.

    If we are going to make moves, I would like to see trades for players that will grow with this core. We may not be contenders this season, but I like where this team is going. So if you trade for a player keep the age of this core in mind. As I have mentioned in past posts Greg Monroe and Harrison Barnes, are examples of pieces that would improve this team, but not compromise the future. I'm just not sure how we get them without moving DD, Ross, Amir, or JV.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I will agree that I'm a part of this discussion as much as anyone else, but never I said that my opinion was right and everyone else's was wrong, so let's get that straight. The poster I gave a warning to got one not because he / she disagreed with my point of view, but because of a personal attack. Personal attacks have become somewhat normal around here as of late, and they will not be tolerated. We suggest that if you need a refresher on the rules here, pm me and I will send you the rules. This forum is meant to be a place to exchange ideas without any insults. Let's keep it that way.

    This will be my last point in regards to Afflalo versus DeRozan. A lot of people on here don't know about Afflalo, and understandably so, because most here only watch the Raptors and this is afterall, a Raptors forum. And as such, a lot of people are going to be pro-DeRozan. I understand that. However, people are very quick to dismiss Afflalo and how good of a player he is. All they'll say is that he's 28 and he plays on a poor Orlando team. They don't see that he's a fantastic player, he's a team player and at this moment, is a better player than DeRozan. You can't dismiss a guy simply because you've never seen him play.
    Is DeRozan a solid player? Absolutely. He's good value for his production. As a Raptors fan, I hope he improves. And I never said that DeRozan would never be as good as Afflalo. I welcome you to show me where I said that. Thanks.



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    I'm no dismissing afflalo as a shitty player. He's a good team player, but saying DeRozan "will never be as good as him" is just stupid. He's slightly worse than him AT BEST, i can gurantee he'll be a much better player down the road. Also if he does make an ASG even this year, than there is no denying who is the better player.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    LoL

    There is some extramarital blackmail pictures going on if that goes down.

    Masai has the NSA on the payroll

    You'd definitely think so. What a magnificent fleecing it would be.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I like it in terms of maintaining a position of strength amongst rival management teams, but hate it from an impatient fan's perspective
    We should be thankful. BC leaked so much to the media everyone knew what he was up to.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    The biggest advantage Afflalo brings is his defense which is better than DeMars, but our D is pretty good with DD right now, so I don't think a trade makes sense. Efficiency aside, DD is the better scorer which is where we need some improvement right now. If win now is the goal you keep DD and only trade him for a better scorer.
    Affalo got lit up by Kyrie Irving on Thursday.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Im suprised no one has put the video up here
    #FREE

  19. #117
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I'm gonna start off by saying that personal attacks will not be tolerated. Consider it a warning. One more like that and it will result in a ban from the site.

    Secondly, I'm pretty sick of doing these Afflalo v. Demar comparisons. I realize that this is a Raptors supporter board, but I'm going to be an objective poster.
    A lot of you that are bashing Afflalo have no clue as to how solid of a player he is. And it's a shame. You bash him because he's 28, you bash him because he plays for the Magic, and that's just wrong. He's a smart, savvy player. I'd go as far as to say that he's an older, poorer version of James Harden.

    Never once did I bash DeRozan, but some of you took it as a personal crusade to "pump his tires", singing his virtues as though I have never seen a Raptors game in my life. Is Demar a solid player? Yes. But is he that good of a player to make the ASG? Absolutely not. I would take Lowry over him because Lowry makes much more of an impact than Demar does. At the moment, Demar is just simply a volume scorer, and doesn't affect the game in any other way. Sorry to say it but it's true. The one knock I do have about Demar is that he has all this God given athletic ability, has amazing physical attributes, but his basketball IQ is so incredibly low, it seems that he can't put everything together. You're always left wanting more, and expecting more. If he had the ball IQ to go with everything, we wouldn't be having this discussion about who is better between him and Afflalo, because Demar would be one of the best players in the game.

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    Afflalo is definitely better than DD - its not even debatable. Im not sure why you are even entertaining this guy in this argument.

    Now, as to whether we should make the trade if it was ever proposed due to chemistry issues, having DD locked up for another year (even if its at more money), DD being younger .. those are all legit arguments.

    But with AA at 21.4 ppg on 48% shooting (44% from 3) with a 19.2 PER vs DD at 19.7 PPG on 42% shooting (30% from 3) with a 16.3 PER, AA is clearly superior.

    Throw in that AA plays on a shittier team and thus is asked to carry more of a load and has less help than DD, and things sway even more in AA's favour.

    I get that we like our own players ... but lets be objective here.

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  21. #118
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    I'm strongly against moving DD for Afflalo- And i'm a fan of both players.

    A) We're not at the point where we're one veteran piece away. You'll notice the teams that go for that "one piece" successfully have a core that hit the playoffs, or came close enough with a noticeable flaw, that it was reasonable. Portland was close with several issues- No real 7-foot rim protector, and a completely terrible bench. They addressed those two issues in the off-season and found success. Another? Indiana, who needed a bench but still had a great run last year. We don't have that yet, and we don't know how this year will finish.

    B) Afflalo doesn't move the needle enough. Is he a good player? Yes. Was he better then Demar last year? No. Is it reasonable to question if this is a hot streak, since players don't usually hit another gear and sustain it for the rest of their career? Yes.

    C) If we trade for Afflalo, we're losing asset value. Afflalo is a average player historically, who is above leage-average PER this season for the very first time. He's also had less Defensive Win Shares then Demar the last three seasons, and he's peaking. This season could be what Afflalo is for the rest of the career, or he could end up worse. Demar has shown steady improvement in the league, hasn't hit his peak, was better then Arron last year, and is younger. Even if they gave us a straight Demar for Arron (which I'm not sure they'd do) it'd still be a net negative.

    D) Chemistry. Demar and Amir have been the two constants on the team. They're both hard-working players, hustle guys, who by all accounts love playing in Toronto. We don't know what the team will look like without either of them, but i'm willing to bet we're going to miss the chemistry the team is having right now if we trade Demar.

    In Conclusion: Arron is a good player, but he's not good enough to give up an asset like Demar when we don't really qualify for one piece away status. If you're going to deal your best assets, when they're at a very high value, you deal them for someone who kicks that needle up. You look for stars, or superstars, who aren't happy. You look for really good young players who are available. You look for someone who really, really likes Demar and gives up a young asset and a first for him. You don't trade one of your best assets for an older, less valuable asset who is not going to help you win a championship

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  23. #119
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    I'm strongly against moving DD for Afflalo- And i'm a fan of both players.

    A) We're not at the point where we're one veteran piece away. You'll notice the teams that go for that "one piece" successfully have a core that hit the playoffs, or came close enough with a noticeable flaw, that it was reasonable. Portland was close with several issues- No real 7-foot rim protector, and a completely terrible bench. They addressed those two issues in the off-season and found success. Another? Indiana, who needed a bench but still had a great run last year. We don't have that yet, and we don't know how this year will finish.

    B) Afflalo doesn't move the needle enough. Is he a good player? Yes. Was he better then Demar last year? No. Is it reasonable to question if this is a hot streak, since players don't usually hit another gear and sustain it for the rest of their career? Yes.

    C) If we trade for Afflalo, we're losing asset value. Afflalo is a average player historically, who is above leage-average PER this season for the very first time. He's also had less Defensive Win Shares then Demar the last three seasons, and he's peaking. This season could be what Afflalo is for the rest of the career, or he could end up worse. Demar has shown steady improvement in the league, hasn't hit his peak, was better then Arron last year, and is younger. Even if they gave us a straight Demar for Arron (which I'm not sure they'd do) it'd still be a net negative.

    D) Chemistry. Demar and Amir have been the two constants on the team. They're both hard-working players, hustle guys, who by all accounts love playing in Toronto. We don't know what the team will look like without either of them, but i'm willing to bet we're going to miss the chemistry the team is having right now if we trade Demar.

    In Conclusion: Arron is a good player, but he's not good enough to give up an asset like Demar when we don't really qualify for one piece away status. If you're going to deal your best assets, when they're at a very high value, you deal them for someone who kicks that needle up. You look for stars, or superstars, who aren't happy. You look for really good young players who are available. You look for someone who really, really likes Demar and gives up a young asset and a first for him. You don't trade one of your best assets for an older, less valuable asset who is not going to help you win a championship
    A very reasonable post on the issue. The one thing I would say about "hot streak" is that while AA was worse (quite bad actually) from 3 last year .. he was still better than DD. And, hes had a couple years where he shot 42-43% from three before. DD has never sniffed that. So - the one thing I think is clear is that AA is a better long range shooter ... and while he may have picked up his overall game, the shooting has always been there.

    Im also not sure on the "asset" point. I would argue that his current stats (much better than DD) plus his more reasonable contract make him more of an "asset" than DD is (in terms of trade asset).

    The rest of your stuff makes sense to me though

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Afflalo is definitely better than DD - its not even debatable. Im not sure why you are even entertaining this guy in this argument.

    Now, as to whether we should make the trade if it was ever proposed due to chemistry issues, having DD locked up for another year (even if its at more money), DD being younger .. those are all legit arguments.

    But with AA at 21.4 ppg on 48% shooting (44% from 3) with a 19.2 PER vs DD at 19.7 PPG on 42% shooting (30% from 3) with a 16.3 PER, AA is clearly superior.

    Throw in that AA plays on a shittier team and thus is asked to carry more of a load and has less help than DD, and things sway even more in AA's favour.

    I get that we like our own players ... but lets be objective here.
    He's not that much better at all. He's shooting 44% from 3 and he's averaging 1 point higher than DeRozan. I still take DeRozan over Afflalo long term.
    DeRozan has improved every year and he's only slightly worse than Afflalo while being 4 years younger

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