Can't think of a superstar that fits better than Kevin Love

[JawsGT]

Yeah, I've said in a post earlier this is part of what bugs me about it. Forget that you'll be maxing him out to keep him at some point, thus devoting a lot of capspace to him.

I imagine that if we were working with our current roster, and given Love's age and production....It would probably be something like Amir + Salmons + Ross + 3 1st round picks to even have a chance at him.

Yeah, that's way too much IMO, if indeed that would be the requirement.

[S.R.]

Far too rich for my blood.

I've got a rubber Voit basketball, plus some pocket lint to offer. Hoping Newton bites.

Hahahaha - Voit! Strap on some LA Gears, and you're ready to hit the blacktop!

Love getting tired of the losing in Minny?



http://dimemag.com/2014/01/kevin-lov...-gerald-green/

Love's been grumbling in Minny for a couple seasons already. I still don't want him as a #1 guy, as fantastic as he is at scoring the basketball (I love that phrase - what else do you score in basketball? Don't answer that.) and rebounding the ball (see previous comment), you don't want a max contract franchise guy who can't play defense. Ever.

[white men can't jump]

Yeah, that's way too much IMO, if indeed that would be the requirement.

Well think that OKC got a young player (Lamb), a serviceable player on a nice expiring contract (Martin), 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder for Harden, who was less established than Love as an all-star at the time of the trade (which was a more quiet and surprising situation). Yeah, I could see it being 4 young assets/1st round picks, a serviceable player and cap relief. I think given the situations, Love's will create quite a bidding war and result in that kind of offer at minimum.

[planetmars]

I think GSW would make a great fit for Love. They have pieces as well. Lee/Barnes (or Thompson)/Future pick for Love. That's better than anything Toronto could offer.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Well think that OKC got a young player (Lamb), a serviceable player on a nice expiring contract (Martin), 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder for Harden, who was less established than Love as an all-star at the time of the trade (which was a more quiet and surprising situation). Yeah, I could see it being 4 young assets/1st round picks, a serviceable player and cap relief. I think given the situations, Love's will create quite a bidding war and result in that kind of offer at minimum.

With the premium seeming to be placed on 1st round picks now, I wonder if Minny might ask for a package that includes DeRozan & Amir & 1 or 2 1st round picks (ie: Toronto's 2014 pick and one of Toronto's 2016 picks).

The money would balance out, with Toronto actually saving about $1.3M this season.

As for Love, I understand the issues people have expressed about his game and his character, as well as the possibility that he leaves after the 2014-15 season. However, I actually think he'd be a great fit alongside Valanciunas, assuming Valanciunas develops into the defensive anchor we're all hoping for. Offensively, Valanciunas would play in the low-post, while Love could operate out of the high-post (allowing him to drift out to 3pt line as well).

My greatest concerns are the price Toronto would have to pay and the risk of him bolting the first chance he gets.

However, a starting lineup of Valanciunas, Love, SF, Ross and PG (Lowry?) could be pretty dynamic.

[white men can't jump]

With the premium seeming to be placed on 1st round picks now, I wonder if Minny might ask for a package that includes DeRozan & Amir & 1 or 2 1st round picks (ie: Toronto's 2014 pick and one of Toronto's 2016 picks).

The money would balance out, with Toronto actually saving about $1.3M this season.

As for Love, I understand the issues people have expressed about his game and his character, as well as the possibility that he leaves after the 2014-15 season. However, I actually think he'd be a great fit alongside Valanciunas, assuming Valanciunas develops into the defensive anchor we're all hoping for. Offensively, Valanciunas would play in the low-post, while Love could operate out of the high-post (allowing him to drift out to 3pt line as well).

My greatest concerns are the price Toronto would have to pay and the risk of him bolting the first chance he gets.

However, a starting lineup of Valanciunas, Love, SF, Ross and PG (Lowry?) could be pretty dynamic.

I think they'd have more interest in Ross than DeMar. Remember this: if they trade Love, it likely means some sort of rebuid, so I doubt they want a long-term contract like DeMar's.

I think they also demand at least 2 1st round picks, and possibly 3 (or the right to swap, or a couple of 2nd rounders). Again, if/when Love is shopped or demands a trade, it's going to create a massive bidding war. Some dumbass GM will make an offer that Toronto would have to beat involving multiple 1sts, cap relief and a young asset. I have a very hard time seeing a team getting Love for a couple of good/serviceable players and a 1st round pick. He's the most productive PF in the game, which means Minny will shop him as the best PF in the game. He's young, and his current deal is not too hard to swallow (his next deal scares me more). If Minny plays their cards right at all, they will clean up with his trade.

I compared it to Harden before, but it'd be more like the Melo deal in terms of situation. All Minny needs is 2 or 3 teams with undeniable interest and then they can keep driving up the price. Now, NY didn't have to give up 3 1st rounders...but they gave up basically every good young asset they had (Mozgov, Chandler, Gallo, Felton) and a 1st rounder where Denver asked for it specifically in 2014 (Masai clearly knew this would be a stacked draft back then), 2 2nd rounders, the right to swap 1sts in 2016, and cash....
->If I look at Toronto's roster, if we are able to give them enough pieces without trading more than a 1st or two, it likely means sending them ALL our decent roster pieces....We'd be lucky to keep one of Jonas, Amir, Ross, DeMar....and well those are really our only truly desirable pieces. Maybe Patterson or Hansbrough could be filler instead of one of those guys....And we'd still have to give up at least a pick or two. Basically we'd be rebuilding with Love as our franchise player, and lucky to have one other decent core piece in the aftermath of the trade...and we'd lose at least a future asset or two (likely two or more counting 2nd rounders). And if Toronto wants to keep the kind of core you propose, it likely means giving up 3+ draft picks including probably at least 2 1st rounders at minimum.

[Craiger]

i think this team could use a superstar at any position.

But if the argument is "best fit", why would we want to replace this teams best player in Amir Johnson? That would be 'worst fit' in my books.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I think they'd have more interest in Ross than DeMar. Remember this: if they trade Love, it likely means some sort of rebuid, so I doubt they want a long-term contract like DeMar's.

I think they also demand at least 2 1st round picks, and possibly 3 (or the right to swap, or a couple of 2nd rounders). Again, if/when Love is shopped or demands a trade, it's going to create a massive bidding war. Some dumbass GM will make an offer that Toronto would have to beat involving multiple 1sts, cap relief and a young asset. I have a very hard time seeing a team getting Love for a couple of good/serviceable players and a 1st round pick. He's the most productive PF in the game, which means Minny will shop him as the best PF in the game. He's young, and his current deal is not too hard to swallow (his next deal scares me more). If Minny plays their cards right at all, they will clean up with his trade.

I compared it to Harden before, but it'd be more like the Melo deal in terms of situation. All Minny needs is 2 or 3 teams with undeniable interest and then they can keep driving up the price. Now, NY didn't have to give up 3 1st rounders...but they gave up basically every good young asset they had (Mozgov, Chandler, Gallo, Felton) and a 1st rounder where Denver asked for it specifically in 2014 (Masai clearly knew this would be a stacked draft back then), 2 2nd rounders, the right to swap 1sts in 2016, and cash....
->If I look at Toronto's roster, if we are able to give them enough pieces without trading more than a 1st or two, it likely means sending them ALL our decent roster pieces....We'd be lucky to keep one of Jonas, Amir, Ross, DeMar....and well those are really our only truly desirable pieces and we'd basically be lucky to keep one. Maybe Patterson or Hansbrough could be filler instead of one of those guys....And we'd still have to give up at least a pick or two. Basically we'd be rebuilding with Love as our franchise player, and lucky to have one other decent core piece in the aftermath of the trade...and we'd lose at least a future asset or two (likely two or more counting 2nd rounders).

My thinking is that Minnesota has never been a major free agent player, so they might actually prefer getting DeRozan as a young, established, budding star who is under contract for the next few years. Plus, DeRozan is still young, as is Johnson, so adding them to a core of Pekovic, Rubio, Budinger, Shved, Muhammad would still be building for the future.

I don't think Love would get near the return that Harden did, for all the negatives that have been pointed out in this thread. Harden was viewed as a franchise player, stuck behind Durant & Westbrook. Love has been 'the guy' and hasn't really done much to elevate his team, despite gaudy personal stats. He's been portrayed as a selfish whiner for the past couple seasons as well, which could hurt his valuation. More than anything, the uncertainty with his contract status could severely drive down his trade value.

If I was Toronto, I think I'd rather trade DeRozan than Ross, along with Johnson, in a deal for Love. I'd also try to keep the 2014 pick, offering the 2015 1st round pick and the better of the two 2016 1st round picks. Ideally, given the quality of players being traded - DeRozan & Johnson - I'd try to limit the deal to include just a single future 1st round pick (2015 or better of 2016 picks). In addition, 1 or 2 of the Raptors' 2014 2nd round picks could be included (the SAC pick will likely be in the 31-35 range, so almost a 1st round pick, but without the guaranteed salary).

Ultimately, the risk of Love walking in the summer of 2015 might be too great for me to pull the trigger though, especially given the high cost of acquiring him.

[white men can't jump]

My thinking is that Minnesota has never been a major free agent player, so they might actually prefer getting DeRozan as a young, established, budding star who is under contract for the next few years. Plus, DeRozan is still young, as is Johnson, so adding them to a core of Pekovic, Rubio, Budinger, Shved, Muhammad would still be building for the future.

I don't think Love would get near the return that Harden did, for all the negatives that have been pointed out in this thread. Harden was viewed as a franchise player, stuck behind Durant & Westbrook. Love has been 'the guy' and hasn't really done much to elevate his team, despite gaudy personal stats. He's been portrayed as a selfish whiner for the past couple seasons as well, which could hurt his valuation. More than anything, the uncertainty with his contract status could severely drive down his trade value.

If I was Toronto, I think I'd rather trade DeRozan than Ross, along with Johnson, in a deal for Love. I'd also try to keep the 2014 pick, offering the 2015 1st round pick and the better of the two 2016 1st round picks. 1 or 2 of the Raptors' 2014 2nd round picks could be included (the SAC pick will likely be in the 31-35 range, so almost a 1st round pick, but without the guaranteed salary).

The risk of Love walking in the summer of 2015 might be too great for me to pull the trigger though, especially given the high cost of acquiring him.

I don't agree with this. As recently as the previous playoffs before the trade there was lots of talk about how he was not as good as Westbrook or Durant. How he fizzled out in the playoffs. How he might be an all-star, but there was much debate about whether you can build around him or he'd always need to be the 2nd/3rd option.

[Letter N]

I don't agree with this. As recently as the previous playoffs before the trade there was lots of talk about how he was not as good as Westbrook or Durant. How he fizzled out in the playoffs. How he might be an all-star, but there was much debate about whether you can build around him or he'd always need to be the 2nd/3rd option.

Completely agree with White Men here, Harden was expected to become a star but no one knew for sure. Love has been getting a bit of hate lately but he's a guy who was constantly compared to Moses Malone and who currently sits top 3 in points and rebounds. You might not think he's worth it but you're not the one trading him, I'm sure Minny would want a really good package and I'm sure when he goes on the block the Raptors won't be the only one calling.

[Masai Ujiri]

I think they'd have more interest in Ross than DeMar. Remember this: if they trade Love, it likely means some sort of rebuid, so I doubt they want a long-term contract like DeMar's.

Agree here, they'd definitely want Ross. I'd also rather give them Ross, because with Love I'd definitely want at least one wing that can slash, get buckets inside and finish at the rim.

I think they also demand at least 2 1st round picks, and possibly 3 (or the right to swap, or a couple of 2nd rounders). Again, if/when Love is shopped or demands a trade, it's going to create a massive bidding war. Some dumbass GM will make an offer that Toronto would have to beat involving multiple 1sts, cap relief and a young asset. I have a very hard time seeing a team getting Love for a couple of good/serviceable players and a 1st round pick. He's the most productive PF in the game, which means Minny will shop him as the best PF in the game. He's young, and his current deal is not too hard to swallow (his next deal scares me more). If Minny plays their cards right at all, they will clean up with his trade.

Umm I'm not seeing a problem with a team demanding 2 or 3 1st round picks. This is a superstar we're talking about here. Not just a good player.

If the price to get Love is Ross + Amir and maybe taking one bad contract (Minny doesn't really have any bad ones though), and 2-3 1sts. I'm doing that... They maybe want our 2014/15 depending on when we make the trade and the Knicks pick. What's the problem?

It might create a bidding war, but not every GM is Ujiri. Not every GM is going to be patient enough to wait till the trade deadline and continually drive up the price when you KNOW your superstar wants out and you've got a fanbase and probably ownership pushing you to get a deal done ASAP. Masai doesn't get enough credit for this because not every GM is capable of pulling that off.

I compared it to Harden before, but it'd be more like the Melo deal in terms of situation. All Minny needs is 2 or 3 teams with undeniable interest and then they can keep driving up the price. Now, NY didn't have to give up 3 1st rounders...but they gave up basically every good young asset they had (Mozgov, Chandler, Gallo, Felton) and a 1st rounder where Denver asked for it specifically in 2014 (Masai clearly knew this would be a stacked draft back then), 2 2nd rounders, the right to swap 1sts in 2016, and cash....
->If I look at Toronto's roster, if we are able to give them enough pieces without trading more than a 1st or two, it likely means sending them ALL our decent roster pieces....We'd be lucky to keep one of Jonas, Amir, Ross, DeMar....and well those are really our only truly desirable pieces. Maybe Patterson or Hansbrough could be filler instead of one of those guys....And we'd still have to give up at least a pick or two. Basically we'd be rebuilding with Love as our franchise player, and lucky to have one other decent core piece in the aftermath of the trade...and we'd lose at least a future asset or two (likely two or more counting 2nd rounders). And if Toronto wants to keep the kind of core you propose, it likely means giving up 3+ draft picks including probably at least 2 1st rounders at minimum.

I'm really not sure why everyone is also assuming the buck stops with Love. We trade for Love and then he's supposed to lead us to the promised land. No, that's not the point at all. Here's the fact in the NBA. Superstars want to play with other superstars, especially in big markets. If we have a superstar in a big market already (which we would if we got Love), it drastically increases our chances of getting another one. All of a sudden, going after a potentially ringless Durant in 2016 free agency (among many other players we could potentially acquire) moves from highly unlikely to a possibility.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Completely agree with White Men here, Harden was expected to become a star but no one knew for sure. Love has been getting a bit of hate lately but he's a guy who was constantly compared to Moses Malone and who currently sits top 3 in points and rebounds. You might not think he's worth it but you're not the one trading him, I'm sure Minny would want a really good package and I'm sure when he goes on the block the Raptors won't be the only one calling.

I'm not disagreeing with either of you, but I think the contract uncertainty is a huge factor that wasn't present in negotiations behind deals for guys like 'Melo and Harden.

Plus, I don't think there's a comparison talent-wise between a DeRozan/Johnson package and the Lamb/Martin package. For that reason, I don't think Toronto should surrender an equivalent number/quality of draft picks, in addition to the players.

DeRozan & Johnson & 1st round pick (2015 pick or better of 2016 picks) & SAC's 2014 2nd round pick... that's probably the most I'd be willing to giveup for Love.

Even then I worry it's too much for a player who might leave after a season-and-a-half (if traded for by this season's trade deadline).

[Letter N]

Even then I worry it's too much for a player who might leave after a season-and-a-half (if traded for by this season's trade deadline).

I'd assume most teams (maybe not Lakers/Knicks) would only do the trade if an extension is signed, similar to the Harden deal.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'd assume most teams (maybe not Lakers/Knicks) would only do the trade if an extension is signed, similar to the Harden deal.

Could one be signed, given that his current contract would still technically have at least 2 years left on it?

That would obviously change things, if any trade would be conditional to him agreeing to such an extension.

[Masai Ujiri]

Except that Lee is arguably the 3rd or even 4th...or shit, even 5th best player on the Warriors (Curry, Iggy, Thompson, and even Bogut because of his defensive impact). We'd be acquiring Love to be our franchise player and paying him like one. This makes it a very different situation. Lee is still the weak link in their D, and since being there, the team has at times played better going small because they become better defensively.

Umm that's not the point at all.

People are saying acquiring Love would kill our defense, when it's clear that that's not the case at all and there are plenty of examples to prove it.