NBA Players Perception of Toronto & Canada

[Nilanka]

Winning does make a big difference. There's no denying that.

But if a winning Raptors club is compared against a winning American club, I would assume the decision to join the Raptors would still be difficult. As trivial as the metric system, taxation, no ESPN, Canadian anthem, etc. sound to us, they do have a negative impact to American players (if all else is equal).

As Canadians, wouldn't you rather work in your home country than work in New Guinea? And yes, to ignorant Americans, comparing Canada to New Guinea probably isn't much of an exaggeration.

[c_bcm]

Pretty much what I would think. When you win, you get noticed. When you win championships, you really get noticed. If the Raptors ever become contenders (four years) I don't see many players thinking "Sure I could get a ring in TO, but it's TO. Canada. Nah. I'd rather stay in Brooklyn."

Maybe, but Dallas seems to be having a particularly difficult time recruiting stars.

[Joey]

Maybe, but Dallas seems to be having a particularly difficult time recruiting stars.

Pfft Ummmmm they signed Jose!!

Lol But seriously, Monte was a great pickup for them actually ... though as a "Star", its debatable.

I think they've also positioned themselves to be players for Melo and the likes.

[aaron.in.toronto]

wow i cant believe people are good with vince and what he did... that was the weakest, bitch move that any player has ever made since i have been following the nba.

the way he left and the way he acted while playing for us did so much more damage then anything bosh did...i mean, he literally refused to dunk and played poorly on purpose!

i think that you are underestimating how much vince's actions actually created the "perceptions" ...people watching were like, if he wants to walk away from everything he had here then it must be no good up in canada...

he was a franchise superstar with a team that was unquestionably under his thumb, he had major fame, and trips to the playoffs and he forced his way out in the most embarrassing situation anybody had ever seen to go to new jersey of all places ,and promptly went to the finals...reinforcing that leaving was a sure fire way to win and move onwards and upwards on a career arc...use the raps as springboard to show teams stateside that you can be a good piece and then force our hand to send you where you want to go while we take back garbage players for stars and get fleeced...it made us look weak and incompetent...

that was the beginning and the end of players thinking it was cool (no pun intended) to play in canada and created the blue print for bosh's antics and it makes him my most hated raptor...i guess time heals all wounds for some people but i wont forget about wince

[2KJ]

how can you forgive a quitter? the one thing he has to do is play to the best of his abilities while representing us and he didn't. all this "at least carter says nice things about us" is shit. at least bosh didn't quit on us. jesus, sticks and stones guys. wa wa wa. guy is a diva, who cares at least he was a hard working diva. same as davis. of the three only one guy was not a professional during his entire tenure wearing the dino. davis and bosh are just stupid people, why hate on the mentally challenged while praising someone taking advantage of you?

again i hate all 3 and won't ever not but this forgive carter for not saying bad things is silly.

He DID QUIT on us in his last year!!!! Coming to the all-star break that year, we were a middle seed in the east and one of the hottest teams. Then after the all-star game, he sat out the rest of the year until we fell fighting for the 8th seed and had to play critical games vs Chicago and Cleveland, where we both lost and lost a playoff spot by 1 game. Franchise players like Kobe, Jordan, etc would have played and would have boosted the team's morale and I believe we would have won. But he sat out so he could remain healthy so he could move to South Biatch.

Don't get me wrong. I still hate Wince and what he did hurts more, but at least we Raptor fans are vindicated by how his career turned out to be. He wasted in his prime on an underachieving Nets team, he didn't become relevant after that, he's reduced to a role player. And all I'm saying is that I hate Rupaul much more than Wince, as Rupaul not only quit but that faggot also insulted/kept insulting our fucking city/country as well.

[JawsGT]

wow i cant believe people are good with vince and what he did... that was the weakest, bitch move that any player has ever made since i have been following the nba.

the way he left and the way he acted while playing for us did so much more damage then anything bosh did...i mean, he literally refused to dunk and played poorly on purpose!

i think that you are underestimating how much vince's actions actually created the "perceptions" ...people watching were like, if he wants to walk away from everything he had here then it must be no good up in canada...

he was a franchise superstar with a team that was unquestionably under his thumb, he had major fame, and trips to the playoffs and he forced his way out in the most embarrassing situation anybody had ever seen to go to new jersey of all places ,and promptly went to the finals...reinforcing that leaving was a sure fire way to win and move onwards and upwards on a career arc...use the raps as springboard to show teams stateside that you can be a good piece and then force our hand to send you where you want to go while we take back garbage players for stars and get fleeced...it made us look weak and incompetent...

that was the beginning and the end of players thinking it was cool (no pun intended) to play in canada and created the blue print for bosh's antics and it makes him my most hated raptor...i guess time heals all wounds for some people but i wont forget about wince

I tend to agree. Not wanting to be here is one thing, giving up and playing like a bi*ch is another all together. I'm not sure how that has affected NBAer's percpetions of TO, but VC can bite me!!

[Nilanka]

To me, Carter and Bosh are so far removed from this current team, my reaction towards them is pure indifference.

[Axel]

Winning does make a big difference. There's no denying that.

But if a winning Raptors club is compared against a winning American club, I would assume the decision to join the Raptors would still be difficult. As trivial as the metric system, taxation, no ESPN, Canadian anthem, etc. sound to us, they do have a negative impact to American players (if all else is equal).

As Canadians, wouldn't you rather work in your home country than work in New Guinea? And yes, to ignorant Americans, comparing Canada to New Guinea probably isn't much of an exaggeration.

What's the weather in New Guinea like? How about the life-style and amenities that would be included? Cost of living, quality of life, etc....so many factors to consider. If given the choice of doing the same job, for the same salary, but choosing between middle-class suburbs and long winters vs luxury (drivers, butlers, chef, top of the line house/pool/car) tropical homestead, I'd probably take New Guinea.

Toronto will never compete with the A list markets, Los Angeles, Miami, New York but there is no reason for us to not compete with many of the US B and C list markets (Indiana, Memphis, Sacramento)

[Nilanka]

What's the weather in New Guinea like? How about the life-style and amenities that would be included? Cost of living, quality of life, etc....so many factors to consider. If given the choice of doing the same job, for the same salary, but choosing between middle-class suburbs and long winters vs luxury (drivers, butlers, chef, top of the line house/pool/car) tropical homestead, I'd probably take New Guinea.

Toronto will never compete with the A list markets, Los Angeles, Miami, New York but there is no reason for us to not compete with many of the US B and C list markets (Indiana, Memphis, Sacramento)

I suppose the point I was trying to make was comfort. It's comfortable playing at home, where things are familiar (that's essentially what Bosh was speaking of).

Unfortunately for us, there's nothing we can do to change such a narrow mindset.

[Masai Ujiri]

Here's how I see it.

This team has been mediocre or bad basically every year since its inception.

As a player are you even going to LOOK INTO playing in a city that has a team that's winning 30 games a year? No, you're not unless you're just looking to make a quick buck.

For a star to even consider Toronto, you've got to start winning basketball games. When you're a 50 win team and making some noise in the playoffs, then maybe a star takes a look at you or listens to what you have to say in free agency. That's your opportunity to showcase the city to them.

[Axel]

I suppose the point I was trying to make was comfort. It's comfortable playing at home, where things are familiar (that's essentially what Bosh was speaking of).

Unfortunately for us, there's nothing we can do to change such a narrow mindset.

Oh I get your point, but in all honesty, if I were a NBA player and an UFA, Toronto wouldn't necessarily be at the top of my list. They'd be on the short list (assuming cap, roster space, etc all equal) but I don't think they'd get bumped for being in Canada.

The biggest thing that has to be remembered is that these guys see the NBA in an entirely different way than we do. It's easy for us to lambast a guy for not loving the city/team we cheer for, but that is because we are looking at it entirely from a fan perspective. NBA players, and really any NCAA/HS kid with high prospects look at the NBA for real life. When a player reaches free agency, they are usually at the age where they have a family, so things like home life for family, schools for kids (one of the reasons Nash didn't want to leave the west coast), interests/hobbies for the wife (if you don't think making your wife happy matters, then you obviously aren't married), safety, etc.

[JawsGT]

Do Canadians view the USA as a foreign country? I'm guessing not as much as Americans view Canada as a foreign country. We, in Canada, are constantly bombarded with American culture, but not so much vice versa. Although there are many similarities between the two countries, I'm sure many Americans are ignorant of our Country and as such view it as 'foreign'. Basketball players probably see it a similar way. Furthermore, if your are a star and want to be noticed, most markets in the US will provide a better opportunity for that than TO. If we are winning and in that conversation as a potential contender, than the media coverage will be there, as we have seen recently. But realistically, we are at a disadvantage of acquiring top tier FA's because of our location, as we will be in constant competition with the larger domestic American markets which are more appealing to American basketball stars, which is natural I would think. If we are a 'bubble contender' and we are winning and making noise, then maybe we can attract one of those big name players, but honestly, I think it's a stretch either way that free agency will land us a superstar.

[JimiCliff]

It's nuts that this always has to be framed in such a black-or-white way. It's either 'no one wants to play in Canada', or, 'it doesn't matter that we're in Canada,' when I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between. Are there players who despise the idea of playing in Canada, and would 100% never sign here no matter what kind of franchise is being run? I'm sure there are, possibly dozens, hell, maybe even north of 100 (and as an aside, I'd offer that it might even be in the long-term best interests of the team that this narrow-mindedness weeds itself out before it can get here). Are there players who do not see playing in Canada as any kind of significant drawback? Absolutely.

It isn't an either/or concept.

[Craiger]

Here's how I see it.

This team has been mediocre or bad basically every year since its inception.

As a player are you even going to LOOK INTO playing in a city that has a team that's winning 30 games a year? No, you're not unless you're just looking to make a quick buck.

For a star to even consider Toronto, you've got to start winning basketball games. When you're a 50 win team and making some noise in the playoffs, then maybe a star takes a look at you or listens to what you have to say in free agency. That's your opportunity to showcase the city to them.

How many 50 win teams that have been making noise in the playoffs sign a star? Just looking at the more recent moves:

James/Bosh - to Miami who had won between 15 and 47 games over the last 3 years, only first round exits

Melo - to NY. Hadn't even been a .500 team since 2001

Chris Paul - to the Clippers. Umm record isn't necessary is it?

Howard - To Houston. Between 34 and 45 wins previous 3 years. One first round exit.

Even puttings questions of 'perception' or how players would 'feel' about playing in city X or Y completely aside:

If a team is a 50+ win team with some playoff noise they either 1) have a star already 2) have their pay roll tied up in players already

[Masai Ujiri]

^ I think you completely missed the point of what I was saying, but ok.

Let me rephrase it then. You're dialing in on the 50+ wins for some reason, it was just an example.

The first thing most stars are going to look at nowadays in free agency is "can I win with this team?" If the answer to that is no, then unless you massively overpay (which you cannot do with a max player), you have a 0% chance of signing him.

We haven't even gotten over that first hurdle yet.