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  • #31
    JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Lowry for Monroe?
    Our big rotation is very solid: Jonas for starting centre, Amir for starting PF, 2Pat as stretch four and Tyler as hustle PF/foul-drawing specialist. All we really need is a backup traditional centre and we're good for bigs. Monroe is superfluous to our team - and to be frank I think he's kind of overrated.

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    • #32
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      I completely agree.

      Boston is also another huge darkhorse in my mind, if they were to move Rondo this season.
      And don't forget the Knicks. Dolan knows he missed his chance and fucked up, and if he resigns Melo he will do his level best to get Lowry via sign-and-trade.

      Comment


      • #33
        p00ka wrote: View Post
        They're getting respect because of the way they're playing the game of basketball, not where they are in the standings. But can i borrow that crystal ball of yours? You sure seem certain of some pretty deep stuff. Who is going to laugh about getting a stud and surpassing us next year? Seriously, which team(s) are suddenly going to surpass us from getting a pick? Note: they'd likely have to get a guy that, in his rookie year, is going to deliver that team more than what improvements from JV, Ross, and DD will, and our own draft pick.
        You don't need a crystal ball to see that teams with greater talent influx (top picks in the draft) improve at a faster rate. If you disagree with that, then you might as well stop reading, cause you wont agree with anything I post (ever).

        What respect are the Raps getting right now? Sure, we aren't a laughing stock in the calendar anymore, but we aren't exactly changing anything either. Do you think that we have a better chance of signing a really good player because of this run? Has this made us an ideal destination for anyone?

        I can't tell you exactly which teams will surpass us by next year until the lottery is done but you can certainly line up some probables already.

        Let's say Philly lands #1 - add Wiggins (and Nerlens Noel) to a lineup with MCW running the point. If they don't move Turner and Thad, then that's a pretty good starting lineup that has a ton of upside.

        Orlando gets #2 and drafts Exum, to role out with Olapido, Afflalo, Glen Davis and Vucevic.

        Milwaukee adds Marcus Smart to distribute for 'Po, Ilyasova, Mayo, Henson, Sanders. Pretty good defensively too.

        Utah gets a full season of Trey Burke and adds Parker (or even a Gary Harris depending on slot) to a lineup with Favors, Kantner and Hayward.

        There is also Chicago getting Rose back (plus a nice rookie and their overseas stashed Mirotic) and Boston getting a healthy Rondo back.

        How are the Raps going to continue to improve? By paying Lowry for a half season stretch? By cheering for Demar harder? JV and Ross will improve and Patrick Patterson might be a worthy reclamation project, but we don't have a ceiling too much higher with the current group.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • #34
          magoon wrote: View Post
          Move Jennings to SG (or trade him). Kyle at point. Assume they trade Monroe rather than resign him and play Smith at PF, they get a good SF in the draft? That's the start of a good team. I think Detroit is a serious contender to sign Lowry, possibly THE most serious contender (it's them or LA, and Joe Dumars will be willing to overpay).



          Milwaukee will have a shiny high pick coming to the team and Giannis continuing to get more amazing and will tell Kyle, straight up, it's his offense to run, period, end of story. Milwaukee has had INSANELY bad injury luck this year and will have money to move. I think they seriously make an offer.



          If Lowry gets an All-Star nod (and there's a good chance of that happening) then he's going to be one of the bigger fish available, and more importantly he'll be the best PG available for a rich-ass team that needs a PG. Kobe + good draft pick + cheaper Pau + Carmelo maybe? I think Kyle takes a long, hard look at that possibility.
          I'd want MU to sign and trade Lowry for Monroe. Then Detroit can move Jennings and Lowry plays the 1.

          In terms of Milwaukee, I don't know if they'd draft wiggins/Parker with Giannis at the 3. Of course they could take the BPA route and move Giannis to the 4 (unlikely) or wiggins to the 2. They could take embiid, and solidify their front court.

          But if they're going BPA and fill a need, most likely move will be Exum or smart.

          LAL is the only place I'm worried he'll go to


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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          • #35
            enlightenment wrote: View Post
            I dont need to make any assumptions,
            Look RIGHT NOW at the respect that TRoss is getting around the league. The Miami Heat announcers were going on about Derozan playing like an All-star. Lowry is getting recognition and his trade value has already skyrocketed compared to the rumours we heard earlier this year.

            This is what inflated value means. When your team is losing, its easy to point at a player with good stats and say: Good stats on a Bad team.

            But if the Team is freaking 3rd seed that is a null argument. Demars percentages are easier to swallow because it leads to wins. Demars reputation is despite his lowered percentage, because we are winning.

            so 1st bold: I love seeing the Division banner, it reminds me of the Anthony Parker, Garbo, Nesterovic team.

            2nd bold: Is the east bad, or is the west just ridiculously good? Does it matter? 3rd best team in a 15 team conference is clearly going to lead to the respect, recognition, and reputation I was referring to.
            3rd or 4th seed with a .500 record will cause more people around the league to laugh than to SERIOUSLY consider them a threat in the playoffs.. lets be real, a lot of people are just looking for something to talk about in this horrid eastern conference.. yes we have been playing amazing and im sure people are taking notice but I think we are a long LONG ways away from being taken seriously and it could all be for nothing. You cant say we have already seen inflation because nothing has happened yet, they are still on our team and there have been no rumors of people wanting them since the talks with NY fell apart.

            Comment


            • #36
              magoon wrote: View Post
              Move Jennings to SG (or trade him). Kyle at point. Assume they trade Monroe rather than resign him and play Smith at PF, they get a good SF in the draft? That's the start of a good team. I think Detroit is a serious contender to sign Lowry, possibly THE most serious contender (it's them or LA, and Joe Dumars will be willing to overpay).



              Milwaukee will have a shiny high pick coming to the team and Giannis continuing to get more amazing and will tell Kyle, straight up, it's his offense to run, period, end of story. Milwaukee has had INSANELY bad injury luck this year and will have money to move. I think they seriously make an offer.



              If Lowry gets an All-Star nod (and there's a good chance of that happening) then he's going to be one of the bigger fish available, and more importantly he'll be the best PG available for a rich-ass team that needs a PG. Kobe + good draft pick + cheaper Pau + Carmelo maybe? I think Kyle takes a long, hard look at that possibility.
              So, for starters, you admit that there's very few teams that could possibly be in the running. Now to your suggested destinations:

              Detroit: Seriously? You think the Pistons have the makings of a good team? Undersized chucker, non facilator, to SG? Or trade Jennings? Who the f... would want him for $8M/yr? No team with any smarts. Good team? JSmoove is still dumbass chucker after 9 years in the L, and is not going to change still seeing himself as a SF chucker. Monroe, if they keep him is still a plodding PF, who can score, but not difficult to defend, and is horrible on defense. Drummond is getting all kinds of hype, but compared to JV is nothing more than an oversized, athletic Reggie. A rebounding machine, with zero other skills at either end of the court, perhaps because he shows that he's too dumb to catch on to anything other than jump and grab the ball big fella. Makings of a good team? I strongly disagree, just like I did when people were saying they were going to be so much better with with JSmoove and Jennings. Dumars is a fool as a GM. I don't see KL going to such a dysfunctional team and organization, but we're all free to our own opinions.

              Milwaukee: I like our chances against that mismanaged team, that is way down on the growth curve than the team KL is already very comfortable with and putting himself on the line for.

              Lakers: Certainly a possibility if KL accepts being Kobe's ballboy. I have my doubts.

              So, at the end of the day, there's no clear cut destination that would pay KL bigger $$$, and one that he'd want to go to,,,, and as I detailed, very few even possible destinations.

              Comment


              • #37
                Axel wrote: View Post
                You don't need a crystal ball to see that teams with greater talent influx (top picks in the draft) improve at a faster rate. If you disagree with that, then you might as well stop reading, cause you wont agree with anything I post (ever).

                What respect are the Raps getting right now? Sure, we aren't a laughing stock in the calendar anymore, but we aren't exactly changing anything either. Do you think that we have a better chance of signing a really good player because of this run? Has this made us an ideal destination for anyone?

                I can't tell you exactly which teams will surpass us by next year until the lottery is done but you can certainly line up some probables already.

                Let's say Philly lands #1 - add Wiggins (and Nerlens Noel) to a lineup with MCW running the point. If they don't move Turner and Thad, then that's a pretty good starting lineup that has a ton of upside.

                Orlando gets #2 and drafts Exum, to role out with Olapido, Afflalo, Glen Davis and Vucevic.

                Milwaukee adds Marcus Smart to distribute for 'Po, Ilyasova, Mayo, Henson, Sanders. Pretty good defensively too.

                Utah gets a full season of Trey Burke and adds Parker (or even a Gary Harris depending on slot) to a lineup with Favors, Kantner and Hayward.

                There is also Chicago getting Rose back (plus a nice rookie and their overseas stashed Mirotic) and Boston getting a healthy Rondo back.

                How are the Raps going to continue to improve? By paying Lowry for a half season stretch? By cheering for Demar harder? JV and Ross will improve and Patrick Patterson might be a worthy reclamation project, but we don't have a ceiling too much higher with the current group.
                These are very similar arguments that many here were making in the offseason as to why the Raps should tank. Many expected every team in the East, outside of Boston, Philly and Orlando, to improve to the point of making the Raps irrelevant. There were arguments made for Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Charlotte, and Washington, while Brooklyn, NYK, and Chicago were supposed locks for the playoffs and even the 3-5 seeds. Things don't look the same now though. Realistically, you're predictions for team improvement as a result of acquiring draft picks are no more valid than your prediction that this team cannot improve as is, let alone with any other moves that MU could make. Seriously, if there is no way to make this team better without going to the draft, than Masai would already be well on his way to securing a high lottery pick. But, alas, he is not.

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                • #38
                  p00ka wrote: View Post
                  So, at the end of the day, there's no clear cut destination that would pay KL bigger $$$, and one that he'd want to go to,,,, and as I detailed, very few even possible destinations.
                  Even with a few additions, your point stands that there will very likely be quite a limited market for Lowry, at least in terms of being able to offer both equivalent money and a starting position.

                  I still see two potential stumbling blocks. First, all it takes it one team to make a crazy offer that drives Lowry's contract demands beyond affordable/reasonable. Second, there's still the 'contract year' risk, regardless of the price.

                  In a perfect world, S&D helps keep Lowry's demands reasonable ($7-9M per season?) and his performance this season is sustainable, a result of health & maturity. Only time will tell though...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    FoxMachine wrote: View Post
                    3rd or 4th seed with a .500 record will cause more people around the league to laugh than to SERIOUSLY consider them a threat in the playoffs.. lets be real, a lot of people are just looking for something to talk about in this horrid eastern conference.. yes we have been playing amazing and im sure people are taking notice but I think we are a long LONG ways away from being taken seriously and it could all be for nothing. You cant say we have already seen inflation because nothing has happened yet, they are still on our team and there have been no rumors of people wanting them since the talks with NY fell apart.
                    who said a .500 record?
                    We have had one of the hardest stretches of games in the league and we are at .500. We have 12 more games against people above .500. I think we can get in the range of 47-50 wins.

                    You havent really said anything about the strategy of playing well in order to increase the value of our players.

                    And for everyone talking about draft picks, RAPTORS CAN MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT WITHOUT TANKING. Infact, the more players like Amir, Lowry, and Derozan are WORTH, the more likely we can move up in the draft without tanking. What increase those players values? WINNING.
                    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                    • #40
                      Axel wrote: View Post
                      How are the Raps going to continue to improve? By paying Lowry for a half season stretch? By cheering for Demar harder? JV and Ross will improve and Patrick Patterson might be a worthy reclamation project, but we don't have a ceiling too much higher with the current group.
                      By increasing the trade value of our players, so that by end season we can move up in the draft. You are painting false dichotomies. It is not, either we tank, or we fall behind. Infact, if we tank, we are putting all our eggs in one draft, who could turn out to be a bust.
                      On the other hand, by increasing the trade value of all of our players by gaining recognition around the league (by placing in 3rd seed), we have much more flexibility in what we want to do. Whether it be, trade for a star, attract FAs, or even MOVING UP IN THE DRAFT, winning will increase the chances of doing one of those three.

                      Not to mention, the added bonus of winning culture, lineup continuity + chemistry, an more excited fan base, and competitive playoff basketball (possibly 2nd-round playoff basketball)
                      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        enlightenment wrote: View Post
                        who said a .500 record?
                        We have had one of the hardest stretches of games in the league and we are at .500. We have 12 more games against people above .500. I think we can get in the range of 47-50 wins.

                        You havent really said anything about the strategy of playing well in order to increase the value of our players.

                        And for everyone talking about draft picks, RAPTORS CAN MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT WITHOUT TANKING. Infact, the more players like Amir, Lowry, and Derozan are WORTH, the more likely we can move up in the draft without tanking. What increase those players values? WINNING.
                        it doesn't matter what our record turns out to be. It means nothing when all you would need to be 3rd or 4th seed is a .500 record. Even if we are legit, Im not interested in being what Atlanta used to be and just collecting our division championship banner. Doesn't anyone want.. you know.. a real championship around here? Don't get me wrong, I love the way we are playing and I love watching this team but I don't know if people around the league are putting as much stock into our wins as people around here are, that's all im saying. Same goes for the value of the players.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          MU's first job is to find out if lowry would resign here. if not, then we need to trade him regardless. were not winning a chamionship this year with lowry, so holding on to him to lose him in the summer is pointless.
                          as for moving up in the draft, the only piece we really have that anyone would consider trading for is JV

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                          • #43
                            FoxMachine wrote: View Post
                            it doesn't matter what our record turns out to be. It means nothing when all you would need to be 3rd or 4th seed is a .500 record. Even if we are legit, Im not interested in being what Atlanta used to be and just collecting our division championship banner. Doesn't anyone want.. you know.. a real championship around here? Don't get me wrong, I love the way we are playing and I love watching this team but I don't know if people around the league are putting as much stock into our wins as people around here are, that's all im saying. Same goes for the value of the players.
                            You didnt even bring up any of my points. Are you just talking to yourself? You are assuming that your plan is the only way to a championship. Clearly I want to win a championship, we just have different plans of getting there. You want to draft, great we can draft well without tanking.

                            My main point is the value of each player increases with each win. Thus the value of the team as a whole increases, meaning we can net real talent through FA, trade, or trading for a higher draft pick using the inflated value of a player on a winning team.
                            The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Evia99 wrote: View Post
                              MU's first job is to find out if lowry would resign here. if not, then we need to trade him regardless. were not winning a chamionship this year with lowry, so holding on to him to lose him in the summer is pointless.
                              as for moving up in the draft, the only piece we really have that anyone would consider trading for is JV
                              Unless DeMar becomes an All-Star (very possible). Unless Ross continues to improve (teams are already very interested in him). There are always possibilities.

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                              • #45
                                enlightenment wrote: View Post
                                You didnt even bring up any of my points. Are you just talking to yourself? You are assuming that your plan is the only way to a championship. Clearly I want to win a championship, we just have different plans of getting there. You want to draft, great we can draft well without tanking.

                                My main point is the value of each player increases with each win. Thus the value of the team as a whole increases, meaning we can net real talent through FA, trade, or trading for a higher draft pick using the inflated value of a player on a winning team.
                                I brought up both main points... clearly you didn't read the whole post. You just said your main point is the value of each player increases with each win... are u blind? or did I not just say:
                                Don't get me wrong, I love the way we are playing and I love watching this team but I don't know if people around the league are putting as much stock into our wins as people around here are, that's all im saying. Same goes for the value of the players.

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