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Thread: JV trade value?

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    Default JV trade value?

    No I don't want to trade him. But theoretically, if a trade was to happen with us trading JV for a pick in this years draft, which pick would have to come back in order for it to be a fair trade? 1st overall? 2nd overall? 5th? 10th?

    Or another way of putting it, let's say that JV was magically inserted into the draft this year, how high would he be drafted?

    The reason I am wondering, is that so many people are disappointed that we are winning and thus not ta-anking and will miss out on a chance to draft high in the coming draft. The theory is that you can never win a title without at least 1 elite player, a top 10 NBA player and the way to get one is to draft him.

    But is it possible we are already have our man in JV and he will some years from now be a top 10 player? Maybe top 15, maybe that would be good enough to win a title with the other pieces in place?

    Just wondering how highly you would rate JV. I'm guessing everyone would trade him for the 1st overall pick, but no way would we trade him for the 10th overall pick. So what is his value exactly? And if we wouldn't trade him for say the 5th pick overall then wouldn't that mean we already have our potentially elite player to build around?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    I don't think we can get fair value for JV in the market. Not at this time, when the big draft is coming up.

    JV value is high, he should be worth maybe even top 3-7 pick in this draft, but like I said, I don't think we can get fair value for him in the market.

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    Quote avocado wrote: View Post
    No I don't want to trade him. But theoretically, if a trade was to happen with us trading JV for a pick in this years draft, which pick would have to come back in order for it to be a fair trade? 1st overall? 2nd overall? 5th? 10th?

    Or another way of putting it, let's say that JV was magically inserted into the draft this year, how high would he be drafted?

    The reason I am wondering, is that so many people are disappointed that we are winning and thus not ta-anking and will miss out on a chance to draft high in the coming draft. The theory is that you can never win a title without at least 1 elite player, a top 10 NBA player and the way to get one is to draft him.

    But is it possible we are already have our man in JV and he will some years from now be a top 10 player? Maybe top 15, maybe that would be good enough to win a title with the other pieces in place?

    Just wondering how highly you would rate JV. I'm guessing everyone would trade him for the 1st overall pick, but no way would we trade him for the 10th overall pick. So what is his value exactly? And if we wouldn't trade him for say the 5th pick overall then wouldn't that mean we already have our potentially elite player to build around?
    1st part, I believe he could be worth TOP 6 pick
    2nd part. He would be drafted TOP 7

    Discussion about the trading part, if the teams direction is rebuilding (what currently looks like) and we have a legit young core with two young prospects (TRoss and JV) then there is no real reason to trade, why to gamble and risk, when you are solid on these positions. By saying gamble I mean trading JV for 5th pick, you would like to receive another high potential player or a future superstar like Parker (Wiggins), which are not available, so you are left with chance and luck.

    Take a look at past few drafts. The fact that we would not trade him just means that we are rather more comfortable with keeping JV as a piece of an long term puzzle, than basically setting the franchise two years back.
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    I don't think we can get fair value for JV in the market. Not at this time, when the big draft is coming up.

    JV value is high, he should be worth maybe even top 3-7 pick in this draft, but like I said, I don't think we can get fair value for him in the market.
    Yeah, I think teams will be so reluctant to part with high picks that you'll have to give them more than a young player back. Could end up having to give up future picks as well, or take on a bad contract...basically they'll make it hard for you to win the trade.

    I think our best piece is Ross. His value might be a little lower on his own, but that makes it more palatable to part with him, and a team looking for a wing in the draft, but who misses out on the big prizes, may have legit interest in him. Some teams don't like stacking talent at a position they already have filled, because it becomes hard for both assets to increase value while fighting for the same minutes.

    Even possibly use him to acquire another young piece if a team ends up stacking a position in a draft....for example:
    -If Milly ends up in a spot to take either Wiggins or Parker, do they? And then Antetokounmpo's position is stacked....do they go into the season with both and end up possibly lowering one's trade value or look to trade them at the draft?
    -If Utah misses out on the best non-PGs, and someone like Smart is best player available at their pick, do they stack him with Burke? Would they trade one away? (I'd definitely want Smart more than Burke)

    In the end I'm not sure any teams in the top 10 trade a pick, or even will feel forced to stack position. And I don't particularly want to trade any of our young guys, but only because it's hard to imagine what good return would be. Hopefully if Masai is willing to pull the trigger on a deal involving either Ross or Jonas, he's super confident (like no-brainer) it's worth it.

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    Quote avocado wrote: View Post
    No I don't want to trade him. But theoretically, if a trade was to happen with us trading JV for a pick in this years draft, which pick would have to come back in order for it to be a fair trade? 1st overall? 2nd overall? 5th? 10th?

    Or another way of putting it, let's say that JV was magically inserted into the draft this year, how high would he be drafted?

    The reason I am wondering, is that so many people are disappointed that we are winning and thus not ta-anking and will miss out on a chance to draft high in the coming draft. The theory is that you can never win a title without at least 1 elite player, a top 10 NBA player and the way to get one is to draft him.

    But is it possible we are already have our man in JV and he will some years from now be a top 10 player? Maybe top 15, maybe that would be good enough to win a title with the other pieces in place?

    Just wondering how highly you would rate JV. I'm guessing everyone would trade him for the 1st overall pick, but no way would we trade him for the 10th overall pick. So what is his value exactly? And if we wouldn't trade him for say the 5th pick overall then wouldn't that mean we already have our potentially elite player to build around?
    Why would you want to trade JV for a pick? Why do you think the guys who have not played an NBA game are going to be better than him? For all we know Joel Embiid could be Hasheem Thabeet, Jabari Parker is Rudy Gay, etc.. We already know what JV's baseline play is in the NBA and he only continues to get better, so why take that risk at all? If JV was a bust at this point in his development maybe you would try to trade him for a pick but he isn't. JV is a legitimate starting NBA center as a sophomore with massive potential upside.

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    Quote JRedmond14 wrote: View Post
    Why would you want to trade JV for a pick? Why do you think the guys who have not played an NBA game are going to be better than him? For all we know Joel Embiid could be Hasheem Thabeet, Jabari Parker is Rudy Gay, etc.. We already know what JV's baseline play is in the NBA and he only continues to get better, so why take that risk at all? If JV was a bust at this point in his development maybe you would try to trade him for a pick but he isn't. JV is a legitimate starting NBA center as a sophomore with massive potential upside.
    We know Embid is gunna be like Thabeet? i do not know that as it is not true. You're making pure speculations about things that the pros see a possible number one pick in one of the best drafts. smh

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    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    He said "for all we know".
    Basically, that Embiid could be Thabeet and we won't know what type of players these guys are until they actually play in the NBA. JV on the other hand, he's already here.

    He's not saying he expects Embiid to bust, just that it's a riskier move.

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    Quote JRedmond14 wrote: View Post
    Why would you want to trade JV for a pick? Why do you think the guys who have not played an NBA game are going to be better than him? For all we know Joel Embiid could be Hasheem Thabeet, Jabari Parker is Rudy Gay, etc.. We already know what JV's baseline play is in the NBA and he only continues to get better, so why take that risk at all? If JV was a bust at this point in his development maybe you would try to trade him for a pick but he isn't. JV is a legitimate starting NBA center as a sophomore with massive potential upside.
    That was the first thing I said, I don't want to trade him.

    Some people wanted to **** saying that that's the only way to win a title. I disagree. Even if we were to draft an elite talent who went on to become a top 10 NBA player the danger is that if we don't surround him very quickly with the talent required to become a contender then he will probably leave anyway.

    Building around JV seems to me like it has at least much chance of success. If he becomes a top 10 player (big if but possible IMO) then it's just a matter of putting together the right supporting cast and I'd say we're well on our way to doing just that.

    So how realistic is it that JV becomes a top 10 NBA player? Or does not have the tools to ever be that good?

    I'd be curious as to what people think his ceiling is?

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    JV fits here. Im not sure you gamble in the lottery when you have a solid durable piece that is going to be an NBA player for at least the next decade. That being said, part of what makes a rookie deal so attractive is that you got four years on the cheap, So whatever value you think JV hasnneeds to be offset by the fact that in two years, not four, you gotta pay the man. If JV was in the draft he would go somewhere between 4 and 9.

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    Hes 21, a starter, putting up double/doubles consistently. His toughness is underrated, he doesnt get pushed around whatsoever which is surprising given how old he is. If anything he has been overpowering more opponents more often than not. I remember seeing when they played NY recently, Chandler giving him plenty of respect. He will be an allstar in 3 years, his ceiling is very high in my opinion.

    He needs to develop his shot though, stop hesitating so much. Thats what will take him to that next level.

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    The reason I wouldn't trade JV for a high pick in the upcoming draft is because its a mystery. At least we know JV van actually play in the NBA and he's a useful player. Say you take Embiid, Parker, Wiggins etc and they become a bust? Then what do you do? You juts lost a possible franchise big man for nothing. I just think there's to much risk in trading him for a unproven player. But who knows they could vary well be a lot better the JV to but taking the risk is not worth the reward

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    Quote avocado wrote: View Post
    That was the first thing I said, I don't want to trade him.

    Some people wanted to **** saying that that's the only way to win a title. I disagree. Even if we were to draft an elite talent who went on to become a top 10 NBA player the danger is that if we don't surround him very quickly with the talent required to become a contender then he will probably leave anyway.

    Building around JV seems to me like it has at least much chance of success. If he becomes a top 10 player (big if but possible IMO) then it's just a matter of putting together the right supporting cast and I'd say we're well on our way to doing just that.

    So how realistic is it that JV becomes a top 10 NBA player? Or does not have the tools to ever be that good?

    I'd be curious as to what people think his ceiling is?
    I think a top 5 C is a reasonable expectation. Maybe something like a top 20-25 player in the league. High expectation, but well within his grasp. I think absolute ceiling he has the skills to be a top 10 player, but it's going to take him really fulfilling every bit of potential he has. Either way he'll be a double double machine, and a 2nd or 3rd option on a great team (there is currently no C who's a good/reliable first option, not even Howard, or Brook "the glass man" Lopez), and a very solid, possibly elite defensive C. It's easy to forget how young Jonas is and that he'll be growing as a player for another 3-4 years easily.

    Anyway, it'll be hard to get good value for him. Big men who can do lots of things, have legit size, great (elite?) intangibles including the type of personality that should push him easily into a leadership role...well it's just so rare. Even when he has bad games, he's very rarely passive (nobody can show up for all 82 games and even the best players in the league put up 5-10 stinkers effort-wise where they just have nothing).

    *People can also underrate personality. That's what has carried DeMar from a raw, totally skill-less basketball player into a player who's rounding out nicely and has improved a bit every year. Given how raw DeMar was as a prospect, I would've been thrilled to get a 10-13 PPG slasher who can play average to above-average D. Seriously, he had absolutely no reliable skills on either end of the court as a 20 year old rookie, and look where he is now.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Jan 12th, 2014 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I think a top 5 C is a reasonable expectation....*People can also underrate personality. That's what has carried DeMar from a raw, totally skill-less basketball player into a player who's rounding out nicely and has improved a bit every year.
    This.

    In JV I don't see a player who is going to settle. And, as has been mentioned, he is still very young.

    When I try and project the possibilities in the future, I imagine a JV who has three more years of experience, who has added 20 pounds of muscle (along with the core training to support it and the knowledge of how to use it effectively) and a center who has a reliable shot from 15-18 feet out. A skilled center with a high motor and a great coachable attitude. A center with a regular 20/10 or better and a FT average in the high 70's.

    I'd maybe trade that for a pick in the top three or four, but I don't know if I would go lower, and I don't think anybody gives up a top four pick for JV.

    Probably Raps homerism talking here, but it is what it is.

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    Oh god!! can't even read this. DD trade talk, Lowry trade talk, Amir trade talk, Ross trade talk,,,,,,,, now even JV!!???

    Though all the trade talk was hard to swallow, for some, when the team was doing poorly, at least it didn't take much of a leap to understand the sentiment. Now that they're playing like they are, and are so young, with so much development ahead of them, as individuals as well as a TEAM (unlike pick up games at the Y, continuity and familiarity can be huge in the NBA),, I don't understand why still so much talk of trade scenarios.

    IMO,,, JV's potential value, as a rare elite Centre, is so great, that I couldn't see him being included in a trade for anybody short of Wiggins, who as a home town boy would be too hard to resist.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Mentioned this on another thread. I think the Raps will go all in for Wiggins come draft night. Wouldn't be surprised if they package JV + their pick + more for Wiggins.
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Oh god!! can't even read this. DD trade talk, Lowry trade talk, Amir trade talk, Ross trade talk,,,,,,,, now even JV!!???

    Though all the trade talk was hard to swallow, for some, when the team was doing poorly, at least it didn't take much of a leap to understand the sentiment. Now that they're playing like they are, and are so young, with so much development ahead of them, as individuals as well as a TEAM (unlike pick up games at the Y, continuity and familiarity can be huge in the NBA),, I don't understand why still so much talk of trade scenarios.

    IMO,,, JV's potential value, as a rare elite Centre, is so great, that I couldn't see him being included in a trade for anybody short of Wiggins, who as a home town boy would be too hard to resist.
    Chill. I stated in both of my earlier posts that I don't want to trade him. Don't know that I can put it any clearer. It's a theoretical question, nothing more than that.

    An earlier poster gave JV this evaluation:

    Maybe something like a top 20-25 player in the league. High expectation, but well within his grasp. I think absolute ceiling he has the skills to be a top 10 player, but it's going to take him really fulfilling every bit of potential he has.

    I think this is bang on. I also think that his attitude and desire are so good, that whatever his theoretical ceiling is, he will absolutely reach it. This is why I believe he has a non-zero chance of becoming a top 10 player in this league. I was just curious as to what others think is all as I know some people feel like a top 5 centre is his ceiling. I think top 5 centre and top 20-25 player is maybe where he is most likely to end up, but he does have a chance of being absolutely elite.

    5 years from now, JV IMO could be the best centre in the NBA, an anchor on defence and a #1-#2 option on offence. I wouldn't bet on it happening, but there is I think some chance of it happening. I have no idea how to put a number on the probability, whether its 1%, 10% or 25% or whatever but I do think it would happen and am curious as to what others think.

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Mentioned this on another thread. I think the Raps will go all in for Wiggins come draft night. Wouldn't be surprised if they package JV + their pick + more for Wiggins.
    I dont know Masai well but this doesn't look like him.
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    He'd probably get drafted high lottery (top 7) in this draft. But outside top 3. Wiggins, Parker, Exum, Embiid, Randle, Smart. Jonas would be somewhere in that group.

    If you traded Jonas, I guess you could get a mid lottery pick. Maybe you could trade him now for a top 3 protected and then get lucky and end up drafting top 5.

    But I don't think anyone would trade a top 5 pick on draft day for Jonas. Too much hype around top players in this draft. GMs will be scared to miss on a superstar.

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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    I dont know Masai well but this doesn't look like him.
    I agree. This doesn't sound like a move he'd make. I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to get an additional/higher pick, but he's been a value-seeking GM in trades his whole career. Betting the farm on a draft pick is not him....It's BC. Wiggins may be a generational talent, he may not, but giving up multiple assets sounds more like "drafting the Canadian kid for marketing reasons" than a basketball move.

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Mentioned this on another thread. I think the Raps will go all in for Wiggins come draft night. Wouldn't be surprised if they package JV + their pick + more for Wiggins.
    I don't like this trade... JV + some asset ( money and/or player) + our pick for Wiggins ( and most likely couple bad contracts. )

    Putting all eggs to one basket is just too risky.

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