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JV trade value?

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  • #16
    p00ka wrote: View Post
    Oh god!! can't even read this. DD trade talk, Lowry trade talk, Amir trade talk, Ross trade talk,,,,,,,, now even JV!!???

    Though all the trade talk was hard to swallow, for some, when the team was doing poorly, at least it didn't take much of a leap to understand the sentiment. Now that they're playing like they are, and are so young, with so much development ahead of them, as individuals as well as a TEAM (unlike pick up games at the Y, continuity and familiarity can be huge in the NBA),, I don't understand why still so much talk of trade scenarios.

    IMO,,, JV's potential value, as a rare elite Centre, is so great, that I couldn't see him being included in a trade for anybody short of Wiggins, who as a home town boy would be too hard to resist.
    Chill. I stated in both of my earlier posts that I don't want to trade him. Don't know that I can put it any clearer. It's a theoretical question, nothing more than that.

    An earlier poster gave JV this evaluation:

    Maybe something like a top 20-25 player in the league. High expectation, but well within his grasp. I think absolute ceiling he has the skills to be a top 10 player, but it's going to take him really fulfilling every bit of potential he has.

    I think this is bang on. I also think that his attitude and desire are so good, that whatever his theoretical ceiling is, he will absolutely reach it. This is why I believe he has a non-zero chance of becoming a top 10 player in this league. I was just curious as to what others think is all as I know some people feel like a top 5 centre is his ceiling. I think top 5 centre and top 20-25 player is maybe where he is most likely to end up, but he does have a chance of being absolutely elite.

    5 years from now, JV IMO could be the best centre in the NBA, an anchor on defence and a #1-#2 option on offence. I wouldn't bet on it happening, but there is I think some chance of it happening. I have no idea how to put a number on the probability, whether its 1%, 10% or 25% or whatever but I do think it would happen and am curious as to what others think.

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    • #17
      TRex wrote: View Post
      Mentioned this on another thread. I think the Raps will go all in for Wiggins come draft night. Wouldn't be surprised if they package JV + their pick + more for Wiggins.
      I dont know Masai well but this doesn't look like him.
      Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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      • #18
        He'd probably get drafted high lottery (top 7) in this draft. But outside top 3. Wiggins, Parker, Exum, Embiid, Randle, Smart. Jonas would be somewhere in that group.

        If you traded Jonas, I guess you could get a mid lottery pick. Maybe you could trade him now for a top 3 protected and then get lucky and end up drafting top 5.

        But I don't think anyone would trade a top 5 pick on draft day for Jonas. Too much hype around top players in this draft. GMs will be scared to miss on a superstar.

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        • #19
          RandomGuy wrote: View Post
          I dont know Masai well but this doesn't look like him.
          I agree. This doesn't sound like a move he'd make. I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to get an additional/higher pick, but he's been a value-seeking GM in trades his whole career. Betting the farm on a draft pick is not him....It's BC. Wiggins may be a generational talent, he may not, but giving up multiple assets sounds more like "drafting the Canadian kid for marketing reasons" than a basketball move.

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          • #20
            TRex wrote: View Post
            Mentioned this on another thread. I think the Raps will go all in for Wiggins come draft night. Wouldn't be surprised if they package JV + their pick + more for Wiggins.
            I don't like this trade... JV + some asset ( money and/or player) + our pick for Wiggins ( and most likely couple bad contracts. )

            Putting all eggs to one basket is just too risky.

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            • #21
              avocado wrote: View Post
              Chill. I stated in both of my earlier posts that I don't want to trade him. Don't know that I can put it any clearer. It's a theoretical question, nothing more than that.

              An earlier poster gave JV this evaluation:

              Maybe something like a top 20-25 player in the league. High expectation, but well within his grasp. I think absolute ceiling he has the skills to be a top 10 player, but it's going to take him really fulfilling every bit of potential he has.

              I think this is bang on. I also think that his attitude and desire are so good, that whatever his theoretical ceiling is, he will absolutely reach it. This is why I believe he has a non-zero chance of becoming a top 10 player in this league. I was just curious as to what others think is all as I know some people feel like a top 5 centre is his ceiling. I think top 5 centre and top 20-25 player is maybe where he is most likely to end up, but he does have a chance of being absolutely elite.

              5 years from now, JV IMO could be the best centre in the NBA, an anchor on defence and a #1-#2 option on offence. I wouldn't bet on it happening, but there is I think some chance of it happening. I have no idea how to put a number on the probability, whether its 1%, 10% or 25% or whatever but I do think it would happen and am curious as to what others think.
              I usually don't read any further either, when someone opens with "Chill". Perhaps that's what I should have opened with as well though,,,,,, as in perhaps it's time to chill on the trade talk? As in chill and enjoy what the team is doing, rather than dreaming up other fantasy trade scenarios. There's a lot of real basketball talk to be had, as in our current players' performances, where they stand in their development, offensive and defensive schemes, etc.. I guess my main point is that trade scenarios, surrounding everybody else on this team has been going on forever, mostly attached to the taaaaanking narrative, that I'm really just suggesting,,,,, in an old grump kind of way,,, that appreciating what the team is giving us, might just be a little more enjoyable without the pining for imaginary superstars. But carry on, if that creams your coffee. Sorry for interrupting, truly.

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              • #22
                p00ka wrote: View Post
                I usually don't read any further either, when someone opens with "Chill". Perhaps that's what I should have opened with as well though,,,,,, as in perhaps it's time to chill on the trade talk? As in chill and enjoy what the team is doing, rather than dreaming up other fantasy trade scenarios. There's a lot of real basketball talk to be had, as in our current players' performances, where they stand in their development, offensive and defensive schemes, etc.. I guess my main point is that trade scenarios, surrounding everybody else on this team has been going on forever, mostly attached to the taaaaanking narrative, that I'm really just suggesting,,,,, in an old grump kind of way,,, that appreciating what the team is giving us, might just be a little more enjoyable without the pining for imaginary superstars. But carry on, if that creams your coffee. Sorry for interrupting, truly.
                Perhaps you should try reading what I actually said.

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                • #23
                  avocado wrote: View Post
                  Perhaps you should try reading what I actually said.
                  I don't want to belabour it, but "he looks great, I don't want him gone, what do you think we can get for him?" has 1 highlight. There's a thread for discussing everything JV, where accolades fit perfectly well, but this thread has one purpose: "what can we get for JV?". This old bugger was expressing my opinion that there may be better ways to pass one's time discussing the Raps, but as I said, if such talk turns your crank, sorry for interrupting, seriously, and sincerely.

                  Think of me as a Charles Barkley: I'm so used to sticking my fat ass in the way, that though it does wonders for the cause sometimes, other times it just gets in the way, and occasionally it even gets a foul call. Maybe not a foul this time, but if I got in the way of what some of you call good discussion, I'll stay out of the way from here.

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                  • #24
                    I don't think you trade JV as that would make the center position thin and very difficult to fill. Centers make a lot of money.. even Kwame made more than the mid-level (after he was already considered a bust). If the idea is to trade him to draft Embiid.. then you have lost 2 years of development in your own center to now develop another center.

                    So I don't trade JV.. instead I wait about a year or two and then look for trades. T-Rob has been traded twice and that was from a draft 2 years ago. Barnes has been a guy people think they have a shot at for example. If the Raptors end up getting a mediocre pick due to their draft standings let's hope that MU and Weltman knock it out of the park. If they want one of the top guys like Wiggins/Randle/Exum/Smart/etc.. well let's hope you can trade for them while they are still green, and the team that has them has no patience to develop them. At that point you could get them for a bargain where the price tag does not include JV. Because there is a big risk in trading JV for a guy who may end up being worse than JV but also plays a position that is much easier to fill (PG/wing).

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                    • #25
                      p00ka wrote: View Post
                      Oh god!! can't even read this. DD trade talk, Lowry trade talk, Amir trade talk, Ross trade talk,,,,,,,, now even JV!!???

                      Though all the trade talk was hard to swallow, for some, when the team was doing poorly, at least it didn't take much of a leap to understand the sentiment. Now that they're playing like they are, and are so young, with so much development ahead of them, as individuals as well as a TEAM (unlike pick up games at the Y, continuity and familiarity can be huge in the NBA),, I don't understand why still so much talk of trade scenarios.

                      IMO,,, JV's potential value, as a rare elite Centre, is so great, that I couldn't see him being included in a trade for anybody short of Wiggins, who as a home town boy would be too hard to resist.
                      Me neither, it's just another sneaky thread by the anti-****ers pushing their anti-**** "agenda". By using the ruse of a JV trade the OP no so secretly alleging that JV is in fact our franchise player and that ****ing is unnecessary and unwarranted.



                      Whether you think this team needs a rebuild to be championship contender (and I think it probably does)trading JV is probably not a good move (even if it's part of a package for a number 1-3 pick). Just because a trade involving him probably isn't worth it doesn't mean that he's a franchise player that means we should try to acquire a top 5 player league wide.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #26
                        I wouldn't be surprised if Masai has notes in his head about the relative value of every player on the team. Obviously JV isn't untradeable. It's just that a trade is unlikely to be offered that has enough value for Masai to consider.

                        There is nothing wrong with doing this kind of a thought experiment. It reveals to everyone else on the forum just how out of whack each RR members valuations are with every others, and shows who the biggest homer over-valuators are. (smile)

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                        • #27
                          If you trade him by himself you get 11-16 pick in the draft, You trade him with ross you get 8-12 pick in the draft and if you trade him with ross and our first rounder you probably get a 7-11 pick in the draft. If Jv was in this draft he would probably go top 10, I would say around 6-9 depending on the team and Ross would go anywhere from 13-18 again depending on the team picking him
                          #BringBackUzoh

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                          • #28
                            This thread is hilarious
                            Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
                            Because its 2015

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                            • #29
                              I think it's not unreasonable to believe that JV's value is something like a 6th pick at best. Just because the top5 guys are all superstar material: Parker, Wiggins, Embiid, Randle, Exum all look like franchise players. Obviously Jonas can't compete with them.

                              Also, even if Masai decides to trade Jonas, I don't think he'll settle with a 6th-7th pick in this draft - that's just too low of a value for him. He'd be better off packaging Val + filler for a proven star.
                              Last edited by omgsomuchpotential; Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:21 AM.

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                              • #30
                                I'm starting to think that the hype behind this draft class is not warranted. PHD Steve had a really good podcast last week talking about how none of the main guys are really dominating at the college level like Melo, and Durrant did in college. That's not to say that there isn't a franchise player or two in the draft class, but it's not as much of a sure thing as in the class of LeBron, Wade, Melo...these guys might be more along the Chris Bosh level.

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