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Thread: Hndsight. Harrison Barnes vs. Terrance Ross

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Rookie feet85's Avatar
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    I personally would've prefered Drummond but I like Ross better than Barnes and he just fits so well with our current core
    #BringBackUzoh

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Lets find a way to have both Ross and Barnes on the Raps please lol
    And keep Amir, Demar, PP, JV, Kyle....oh yeah, and add Kevin Durant.

    I gots to stop doing this...

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Maybe when we get a player named "Terrance Ross", then we can compare. Until then my vote is for Harrison Barnes.

    Come on guys..
    Ebrian? More like A(hole)brian... amiright?

    Lol, I'm just playing man
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    to attain near immediate success and to sustain future success... you dont win championships with a Sophomore like Barnes as your starting 3 in the western conference... Barnes needs time to develop into a starter
    Can Raptors win championship with TR starting as SG as a sophomore? Junior?

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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    Can Raptors win championship with TR starting as SG as a sophomore? Junior?
    What? :s
    I don't see any relevance to my post and your question... But to answer yor question... I don't think raptors will win a championship this year or next year regardless of Ross starting or bench warming


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    Harrison Barnes' new brand: Bust?
    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...new-brand-bust

    After building a buzz last postseason, Harrison Barnes has crashed back to earth -- hard -- in Year 2.

    In a moment, Harrison Barnes reminded fans that the hype isn’t wholly empty. On Thursday night against the Clippers, he raced behind a weaving Jordan Crawford, received the pass, then soared past Willie Green for a powerful and-1 dunk. If the crowd's crazed reaction for a merely cool second-quarter jam was a little over the top, it may be attributable to a certain nervous energy regarding the Barnes situation. He’s been adrift on this roster this season, and the murmurs of doubt and disappointment have been growing louder.

    As Anthony Bennett hogs the national “draft bust?” spotlight, it’s easy to forget that there are other young players under local scrutiny. In an ideal world, we wouldn't hold these young men to expectations they didn't set, but that change isn't happening anytime soon. In Barnes’ case, the expectations don’t stem just from being the No. 7 pick. There’s more to the anxiety of “Is this it?” than his lottery status. First, Barnes didn’t storm the scene just last season as Bennett did en route to becoming the No. 1 overall pick in the 2013 draft. Barnes is coming off his rookie season, but the former No. 1-ranked recruit has been underwhelming nervous fans for years now.

    Barnes played for a high-profile North Carolina program and was featured before a March Madness TV audience that dwarfs that of Warriors games. His freshman year at Chapel Hill was underwhelming, albeit mildly so. Barnes scored, but didn't do it that efficiently, and did little else. He still probably would have been a top-three pick if he had opted for the draft then, but he elected to stay a year, which worked out badly for his draft stock, if not his “brand.” Sophomore Barnes played like freshman Barnes. His "NBA body" continued to move as though animated by what draftniks might call a "low motor." His handle remained stilted, his shot remained average, and his disappearances from the team’s offensive attack remained frequent.

    As Barnes drifted through his final college season, the Warriors set about a deliberate course. They tanked mightily in pursuit of a top-seven protected pick. The process was excruciating for just about anyone who followed the team closely out of either obligation or habit. It made a grim mockery of Mark Jackson’s first season as head coach as he strove to prove himself with suited stars and a massive organizational incentive to lose, lose, lose.

    Barnes was the prize, the guy who would vindicate the intentional indignity of 2012. And in the 2013 playoffs, after Warriors fortunes had dramatically reversed for the better, Barnes appeared to do just that. His rookie season was uneven, but Barnes got something of a spotlight during Golden State’s first-round upset of the Denver Nuggets. David Lee went down with a hip injury, and Barnes, who had seen almost no time at power forward to that point, was called upon to be the replacement.

    Barnes thrived with more space on the court, using his long strides to sail toward the rim. Denver frequently left him open beyond the arc, allowing Barnes to shoot 40.6 percent from deep in the series.

    The following Spurs series didn't help Harrison’s efficiency, but it did bolster his national cachet. Tony Parker "hid" on Barnes defensively, which goaded the Warriors into bogging their offense down into repeated post-ups with their rookie. The result was plenty of points for Barnes (an average of 17.3 over the six-game series), but at a below-average 51.4 percent true shooting mark. Since raw point totals still command a lot of respect, many filed Barnes’ series as a breakout performance.

    The Warriors themselves were reputed to be highly optimistic about Barnes during last summer’s training camp, even if they did bring Andre Iguodala in to take his starting spot. Rumors about Barnes' killer training camp set off yet another drum roll in a career comprised of so many anticipatory drum rolls.

    Barnes began this season with a foot ailment, and he’s been, to put it bluntly, quite bad so far. It's not often that you’ll see a player with a 9.95 PER get so many opportunities. Jackson continues to post Barnes up as though his high-flying wing is Al Jefferson waiting to happen. The results have been miserable, mostly because Barnes claims neither the shooting ability nor passing vision to capitalize on frequent post-ups. It’s not all Jackson’s fault, though. Barnes dribbles with the stultifying caution of someone who fears the ball might set off land mines. He also holds on to it with the slow, deliberate focus of someone consulting a Magic 8 ball. To summarize, he’s a ball-stopper, but without the gaudy individual offense that many ball-stoppers can conjure up in isolation.

    Though blessed with the body of an elite perimeter defender, Barnes has shown none of the instincts this season. While it’s understandable that a younger player might struggle on defense, Barnes’ flaws on that end are highlighted by the dogged defensive efforts of less-touted second-year man Draymond Green.

    Draft disappointments don’t just let fans down on their lonesome, as disappointment needs a comparison to some better, imagined outcome. Sam Bowie wouldn't be “Sam Bowie” without Michael Jordan. Perhaps the most agonizing aspect of draft pick disappointment is the emerging picture of the alternatives. As the draft pick hindsight gets more clear, less blurry, it shows Andre Drummond dunking off a high screen lob from Stephen Curry. It shows John Henson blocking a shot simultaneous with Andrew Bogut. It shows Terrence Ross claiming membership as a Splash Brother with a 51-point opus. It shows Terrence Jones as an even better stretch 4 than Barnes in the Denver series. It shows Jeremy Lamb as what Kent Bazemore was supposed to be defensively. Depending on the day, it might even show the better side of Jared Sullinger, Kendall Marshall and Tony Wroten.

    Barnes still has time and still has plausible excuses (remember the early-season injury?). Mark Jackson repeatedly extols his work ethic. Nobody on the team has criticized Barnes for a lack of desire or effort. If you’re hopeful about Harrison, you’ll have to lean on the subjective because the statistical profile is looking bleak. If you’re looking for optimism, you’ll have to consider what Curry said about Barnes after the victory over the Clippers: “He’s still young. He’s still trying to, you know, find his way. New role this year, obviously, coming off the bench. He’s going to get it. We still have confidence in him, we keep staying in his ear; he has confidence in himself, and obviously he’s shown that he can make a huge impact.

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  9. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    And keep Amir, Demar, PP, JV, Kyle....oh yeah, and add Kevin Durant.

    I gots to stop doing this...
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  10. #48
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Barnes and Ross have pretty much had opposite roads.

    Barnes given starter role last year, Ross played off bench behind AA off bench.


    This year Ross was 1st wing off bench and, since Gay trade, now starter. Still gets snubbed by DC at times for Salmons but generally deserved in last 8 games or so when it happens.


    I think Barnes would flourish given chance but signing AI pretty much squat that as he is not a fan of the bench it seems.
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    That wasnt a pleasant piece re Barnes. But he has always had that problem with "expectations". His family/advisors had been grooming since high school when he was such a sought recruit that even his presser to announce his seclection of the Tarheels program was a much watched/followed event. Then his "troubles" in college, the NCAA tournaments and now at GSW. It seems like GS were targeting him in the draft...hmmm. With Iggy there now and him underperforming he might soon be available!

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    Ha, starting to look like a classic case of fan over reaction on all kinds of fronts.

    - all the screaming for heads to roll because we didn't get Barnes, and stretched way to0 far in drafting Ross
    - college ball hype vs real men's bball. You rarely have an accurate evaluation about how these kids are going to do in the NBA until 3 years in. So many look great/bad the first year, yet it's no indication of what's to come.
    - playing time for rookies. All the screaming for development of the young guys. Barnes gets all the opportunity in the world last year, yet never mind not developing further, he has possibly regressed
    - while fans were ultra enamored by Barnes, especially during his nice playoff run, the team management, and coaches who worked with him everyday, decide to go out and sign Iggy to 4 years, relegating Barnes to the bench for at least that long.
    - he's not flourishing on the bench because he offers little to nothing of what you want from the bench. Poor defense, and can't create at the other end. He is really not offering much, except good looks and good body for a SF.

    As it all looks right now, we don't need him in a starting role, and we can do much better for a backup role.

    It's starting to become clear that Ross has much more upside than Barnes. I'd also go as far to say that Ross is going to prove a better pick than the hyped Drummond. A great rebounder who can't score outside 3 ft, and makes Shaq/Dwight look like Nash/Bird at the FT line, can only help so much.

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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Ha, starting to look like a classic case of fan over reaction on all kinds of fronts.

    - all the screaming for heads to roll because we didn't get Barnes, and stretched way to0 far in drafting Ross
    - college ball hype vs real men's bball. You rarely have an accurate evaluation about how these kids are going to do in the NBA until 3 years in. So many look great/bad the first year, yet it's no indication of what's to come.
    - playing time for rookies. All the screaming for development of the young guys. Barnes gets all the opportunity in the world last year, yet never mind not developing further, he has possibly regressed
    - while fans were ultra enamored by Barnes, especially during his nice playoff run, the team management, and coaches who worked with him everyday, decide to go out and sign Iggy to 4 years, relegating Barnes to the bench for at least that long.
    - he's not flourishing on the bench because he offers little to nothing of what you want from the bench. Poor defense, and can't create at the other end. He is really not offering much, except good looks and good body for a SF.

    As it all looks right now, we don't need him in a starting role, and we can do much better for a backup role.

    It's starting to become clear that Ross has much more upside than Barnes. I'd also go as far to say that Ross is going to prove a better pick than the hyped Drummond. A great rebounder who can't score outside 3 ft, and makes Shaq/Dwight look like Nash/Bird at the FT line, can only help so much.
    I'm not going to debate your premise (that we as fans overreact), but I can't help but think you are contradicting yourself in a big way. You claim that we don't know what players will be until 3 years into the league, and yet you appear to be writing Barnes off.

    I would also argue that the reason Golden State went out and signed AI (therefore relegating Barnes to the bench) is less to do with them not trusting Barnes, and more to do with their desire to compete for a championship. Adding a player who has the talent level of AI will help you with that quest.

    How much of the struggles that Barnes is now experience could also be in part due to the lack of PG that he often has to play with. He would be playing far fewer minutes with Curry, meaning his shot would be guarded closer. When you are starting alongside of Thompson and Curry, you will be an afterthought at the 3 point line.

    I don't think we can write Barnes off just yet. He will never be the world beater that he was predicted to be upon high school graduation...but that doesn't mean he can't be a solid player in the league for years to come.

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    Quote Shantz wrote: View Post
    I'm not going to debate your premise (that we as fans overreact), but I can't help but think you are contradicting yourself in a big way. You claim that we don't know what players will be until 3 years into the league, and yet you appear to be writing Barnes off.

    I would also argue that the reason Golden State went out and signed AI (therefore relegating Barnes to the bench) is less to do with them not trusting Barnes, and more to do with their desire to compete for a championship. Adding a player who has the talent level of AI will help you with that quest.

    How much of the struggles that Barnes is now experience could also be in part due to the lack of PG that he often has to play with. He would be playing far fewer minutes with Curry, meaning his shot would be guarded closer. When you are starting alongside of Thompson and Curry, you will be an afterthought at the 3 point line.

    I don't think we can write Barnes off just yet. He will never be the world beater that he was predicted to be upon high school graduation...but that doesn't mean he can't be a solid player in the league for years to come.
    haha, I guess I did come across as contradicting myself. I didn't mean to "right off" Barnes, but was more trying to point out that as it looks right now, after a season and a half, Ross is looking like he has a much higher ceiling than Barnes, imo, which opposes sooooooooooo much of what has been written here, and elsewhere, pre-draft, post-draft, during last season, during off-season.

    AND that all the griping about Ross's minutes/development seems proving to be misguided. Barnes got more minutes and is regressing. Ross got much less and is making upward leaps all over the place. Point being, not all rookies are made the same, and when it comes to what certain players need to develop, us fans know shit, and it may be wise to recognize that.

    As for Barnes needing Curry & Thompson to thrive on offense, exactly my point about him being unable to create for himself, making him far less useful off the bench. If he can't defend, nor create, he has limited value.

    Yup, they got Iggy to try and contend, though as long as the Spurs still have their core, and Durant is in play,,,, but mostly LeBron to face IF they get through the West, I wish them luck. I hope they do well, because Curry is easily one of the most entertaining players in the league to watch, but they have a long way to go if they're relying upon Barnes off the bench, without much else.

    That said, it still says a lot about how us fans see a guy, and how the pros in the game know different. If Barnes was really as awesome as many fans felt last year, you'd wonder why his team would go out and spend that much money on a replacement, hindering their budding young "star's" development for 4 years.
    Last edited by salmon; Sat Feb 1st, 2014 at 04:49 PM.

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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    .
    - he's not flourishing on the bench because he offers little to nothing of what you want from the bench. Poor defense, and can't create at the other end. He is really not offering much, except good looks and good body for a SF.
    .

    Yep, sums it up.
    Keep in mind he wasn't at all consistent/good in his rookie season either, yet came on in the playoffs with some big games which dramatically altered peoples expectations for this season. I don't ever think he'll be a star, let alone a superstar but certainly won't rule him out from being a very good player .Hope he can find his way as he seems like an intelligent guy and a hard worker.
    Last edited by BigCamB; Sun Feb 2nd, 2014 at 01:32 AM.

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    He's Paul George in 2011

    A fantastic write-up on Ross from RealGM. The George comparisons are tantalizing indeed. Read here.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    My answer might surprise you all. But i'd still take Barnes over Ross(very close though).

    Some of the comments here are just flat out ridiculous. Barnes is actually a VERY GOOD defensive player unlike what some people here are saying. He can also shoot if from long range(38% 3pt shooter). He can create his own shot unlike Ross. He also has a very good post up game already(impressive for a 21 year old kid). He's 6'8 210lbs(perfect SF size). And he's 2 years younger than Ross.

    Barnes numbers this year are down from last year. And it's understandable, Warriors use him a lot as a 4 this year. And being a starter his whole life, i'm not sure Barnes is a fan of the bench(takes a lot of adjustments). He's only averaging 10ppg this year. But as a starter he's averaging 14ppg.
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    My answer might surprise you all. But i'd still take Barnes over Ross(very close though).

    Some of the comments here are just flat out ridiculous. Barnes is actually a VERY GOOD defensive player unlike what some people here are saying. He can also shoot if from long range(38% 3pt shooter). He can create his own shot unlike Ross. He also has a very good post up game already(impressive for a 21 year old kid). He's 6'8 210lbs(perfect SF size). And he's 2 years younger than Ross.

    Barnes numbers this year are down from last year. And it's understandable, Warriors use him a lot as a 4 this year. And being a starter his whole life, i'm not sure Barnes is a fan of the bench(takes a lot of adjustments). He's only averaging 10ppg this year. But as a starter he's averaging 14ppg.
    I'm not sure how good he is at shot creation..... Bit other than that.
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    Barnes cannot create his own shot Lol

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    My answer might surprise you all. But i'd still take Barnes over Ross(very close though).

    Some of the comments here are just flat out ridiculous. Barnes is actually a VERY GOOD defensive player unlike what some people here are saying. He can also shoot if from long range(38% 3pt shooter). He can create his own shot unlike Ross. He also has a very good post up game already(impressive for a 21 year old kid). He's 6'8 210lbs(perfect SF size). And he's 2 years younger than Ross.

    Barnes numbers this year are down from last year. And it's understandable, Warriors use him a lot as a 4 this year. And being a starter his whole life, i'm not sure Barnes is a fan of the bench(takes a lot of adjustments). He's only averaging 10ppg this year. But as a starter he's averaging 14ppg.
    I think Ross and Barnes on the court together could be very good. Especially on the defensive end as well as stretching the floor. With a good PG and a low post threat to draw the D, they could wreck teams hangin around the 3

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post


    He's Paul George in 2011

    A fantastic write-up on Ross from RealGM. The George comparisons are tantalizing indeed. Read here.
    disappointed i missed this originally, really fascinating article.

    And while Ross is shooting 41 percent from deep on 4.7 three-pointers per game, he is more than just a shooting specialist. He has the quickness to beat his defender off the dribble and he is one of the best finishers in the NBA, as Manimal found out on Friday. Unlike most scoring guards, Ross is unselfish enough to move the ball and not hunt for shots. He takes what the game gives him; he’s Kyle Korver with the ability to put the ball on the ground and a 40’ vertical.

    Ross gets points as easy as any guard in the NBA, although you wouldn’t always know it even from his breakout season, since he still shares the ball with DeRozan and Kyle Lowry. It’s no coincidence that his break-out game last week, when he dropped 51 points on the Los Angeles Clippers, came on a night when DeRozan was limited after rolling his ankle. Ross needed only 29 shots to get 51, scoring from every part of the floor with absolute ease.

    In the three games following his explosion, Ross has taken only 33 shots, an indication of where he is in the Toronto pecking order. However, there’s only so long a guy with his ability can be held down. He’s a complete guard with the ability to score, shoot, pass, rebound and defend, a starter and two-way contributor on one of the best teams in the NBA. Most impressive of all, he’s still only 22. He should be a senior in college, the same as Doug McDermott.
    to me Ross is as untouchable as Val
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    Now that the seasons over and it being August and all, I thought I should revive this thread.

    Who do you got now, t ross or Barnes?

    Personally I'm still eyeing ross
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