Butch Carter: Vince should enter Hall as a Raptor

[NoPropsneeded]

2004, yes and no, I was 5 that doesnt count
LOOOL
so no

i was like 8. I remember a kid in my class wore a VC Jersey to class on Jersey day around the time when VC whined his way out of T.O, and our teacher took some masking tape and taped an "X" over Carter. It was pretty fuckin awesome, even though i hated our teacher haha

[lilmamba_]

i was like 8. I remember a kid in my class wore a VC Jersey to class on Jersey day around the time when VC whined his way out of T.O, and our teacher took some masking tape and taped an "X" over Carter. It was pretty fuckin awesome, even though i hated our teacher haha

LOOOL dumb child (I'm guessing he was 8 so ima allow him)
thats like going to timhortons and buying Boston cream after the game seven playoff exit by the leafs
your gonna get abused after that

[Katman]

I like the hell idea and he can wear any jersey he wants.

[KazanTheMan]

Just get over it, who gives a shit. Let him come back, and retire his jersey or whatever the hell he wants. We might not even have a team right now if it wasn't for him.

[iblastoff]

This.
What did he do? Dunk a basketball? Win a slam Dunk contest?
I get what you guys mean but you don't make the HOF for making a team famous. I've said it before and i'll say it again, if we didn't draft VC then it would've been someone else to put T.O on the map. Its not like without Vince this team wouldn't exist, it existed before his arrival and its still existing after his departure.

yah i'm sure the vancouver grizzlies were thinking the same thing before they got moved due to LOSING ALL OF THE TIME AND NOT MAKING ANY MONEY EVER WHILE DRAFTING FAILURE AFTER FAILURE. lets face it, if vince weren't here there might not actually be the toronto raptors of today.

[octothorp]

VC is a LOCK to be in the Hall of Fame. He's got a better resume than some of the players that are in the Hall.

8x NBA All Star
All NBA second team
All NBA third team
NBA Rookie of the Year
NBA Slam Dunk Champ(His performance in that contest was legendary)
Top 10 in 3pt FG's made.
Top 25 in the NBA Scoring list

Man, I hate the 'better resume than some of the players already in there!' argument. But you need to go a long way back to find an inductee less impressive than Carter. And he's not top 25 in scoring yet, currently 27th, but could get in there later this year.

I think you could make an argument that he's close to Adrian Dantley, but Dantley has two scoring titles, and will finish with a far superior PPG average than Carter, and had four straight seasons of 30+ ppg. And Dantley, who finished in the top 20 in scoring all time (currently 25th), had to wait 16 years to be inducted.

So who was the last player inductee who has no championships, no all-NBA first team selections, never lead the league in a major statistic, and no wooden/naismith awards? Maurice Stokes? Sure, Carter's got a superior resume to Stokes, but Stokes isn't in there because of stats, he's in there because of the promising start to his career followed by tragedy. Maybe guys from the 1950s and 1960s like Walt Bellemy and Richard McGuire, and those guys all had to wait 30 years after retiring before being inducted.

As to the top 25 list, yeah he'll probably get there eventually, but depending on how long he plays he may only last there a few years. And there's six active players ahead of him on the list, all of whom have championships. Does being top 25 in scoring all-time really matter that much when you're not even top 5 of your generation and have few other impressive achievements?

[S.R.]

Of course. But we aren't talking about sitting around the dinner table with your family laughing about what an idiot you were younger. We're talking about getting into a professional sports hall of fame. This is the greatest honour an athlete can have given to them. In this case, the highest possible standards should be in play.

In a team sport, one of the cardinal sins is quitting on your team (also - I'd figured this out by the time I was about ten years old, never mind 25). All the dunks in the world shouldn't be able to make that disappear. But if that's the case, then just end the charade - have players inducted as individuals, with no association to any team, because clearly that relationship means nothing.

VC is a LOCK to be in the Hall of Fame. He's got a better resume than some of the players that are in the Hall.

8x NBA All Star
All NBA second team
All NBA third team
NBA Rookie of the Year
NBA Slam Dunk Champ(His performance in that contest was legendary)
Top 10 in 3pt FG's made.
Top 25 in the NBA Scoring list

JimiCliff - You're more of an idealist than I am, I think. As Sir Charles would suggest, if you're looking for role models in basketball, you're probably looking in the wrong place. These are just a bunch of guys who happen to have hops and be good at ball sports. Character may or may not be included. Neither do high salaries elevate moral character - I'm not sure why we expect them to. If you get a raise at work, do you become a more moral employee/gain integrity? People are people, regardless of income.

Let sports be sports, I say.

Also, HoF's are tainted already. Guys with lesser resumes than Vince have made it. The lack of playoff runs hurt, but it's tough to keep out a top 25 scorer and 8x all-star who for a time was the league's most popular player (judging by all-star voting, fwiw). He's also had excellent longevity, which is a shock to anyone who's ever seen him take a foul.

I also appreciate that Vince single handedly ruined the slam dunk competition for me. It'll never live up to 2000 again. I still have the VHS.

The suggestion that if the Raps hadn't drafted him, "it would have been someone else" is a leap I'm not willing to take, though. We know who else it would have been - Antawn Jamison. I'm willing to bet those subsequent years would have sucked. Arguably Vince is the only true franchise player this team has had in 18 years. Aside from HoF issues, he's still the best thing that's happened to Raptors basketball.

[YoungGunRaptor]

Yup, and VC has come a long way since he left, going so far as to say that he lost a great opportunity in Toronto. Regardless, he is responsible for putting the Toronto Raptors on the map and making Toronto the team's home since its inception. Without him we would have very likely lost our team, just like Vancouver.

Here is an episode of TSN's off the record, with VC, T Mac, and Oak. Check it out if you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0L-JkFV4gY

[S.R.]

Yup, and VC has come a long way since he left, going so far as to say that he lost a great opportunity in Toronto. Regardless, he is responsible for putting the Toronto Raptors on the map and making Toronto the team's home since its inception. Without him we would have very likely lost our team, just like Vancouver.

Here is an episode of TSN's off the record, with VC, T Mac, and Oak. Check it out if you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0L-JkFV4gY

Nice find Oak's a vice principal? That's awesome.

[YoungGunRaptor]

Nice find Oak's a vice principal? That's awesome.

Yeah I guess so, and you can bet that none of his students are acting up haha

[S.R.]

Yeah I guess so, and you can bet that none of his students are acting up haha

Old Vince and T-Mac highlights just kill me. You forget how good/fun they were...

[NoPropsneeded]

yah i'm sure the vancouver grizzlies were thinking the same thing before they got moved due to LOSING ALL OF THE TIME AND NOT MAKING ANY MONEY EVER WHILE DRAFTING FAILURE AFTER FAILURE. lets face it, if vince weren't here there might not actually be the toronto raptors of today.

Yea. The Grizzles got moved cause of attendance, that's never been a problem with the Raps. Even before Carter

[phiLLy]

God, im watching clips and stuff with TMac/Vince.

Sigh.

[JimiCliff]

JimiCliff - You're more of an idealist than I am, I think. As Sir Charles would suggest, if you're looking for role models in basketball, you're probably looking in the wrong place. These are just a bunch of guys who happen to have hops and be good at ball sports. Character may or may not be included. Neither do high salaries elevate moral character - I'm not sure why we expect them to. If you get a raise at work, do you become a more moral employee/gain integrity? People are people, regardless of income.

Let sports be sports, I say.

Also, HoF's are tainted already. Guys with lesser resumes than Vince have made it. The lack of playoff runs hurt, but it's tough to keep out a top 25 scorer and 8x all-star who for a time was the league's most popular player (judging by all-star voting, fwiw). He's also had excellent longevity, which is a shock to anyone who's ever seen him take a foul.

I also appreciate that Vince single handedly ruined the slam dunk competition for me. It'll never live up to 2001 again. I still have the VHS.

The suggestion that if the Raps hadn't drafted him, "it would have been someone else" is a leap I'm not willing to take, though. We know who else it would have been - Antawn Jamison. I'm willing to bet those subsequent years would have sucked. Arguably Vince is the only true franchise player this team has had in 18 years. Aside from HoF issues, he's still the best thing that's happened to Raptors basketball.

I don't expect anyone to. This is about one specific question: can an athlete in good conscience choose to be inducted into the hall of fame as a member of a team that they out-and-out quit on? I say no; to me, there's something weird about it.

I do think he belongs there, by the way.

[Wiggins]

He'd go in as a raptor if he was elected but shouldn't get in.