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Thread: Lowry/Derozan - best backcourt in the East?

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    ^lol, teach me the ways, master spin doctor
    i'm replying to people in context. you're really not doing anything. good job man. beal/wall > derozan/lowry.

    can you bring up your wade/derozan comparison again? that was hilarious.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    so anyone still think DD/lowry are better than wall/beal?

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    so anyone still think DD/lowry are better than wall/beal?
    me.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Quote raptorsfoheva wrote: View Post
    me.
    boooooooo

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    boooooooo
    lol, what's wrong?
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  7. #66
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    Default Lowry/Derozan - best backcourt in the East?

    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    lol, what's wrong?
    I'm just disagreeing with your view in a peaceful manner. I don't wanna start an internet war calmly disagreeing that DD/KLOW better than beal/wall. And DD being the reason why!

    No fight! Just a diplomatic disagreement. I'm doing it the Canadian way!

    Again

    Booooooooooooooo


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ball4life; Mon May 5th, 2014 at 11:57 PM.

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    I'm just disagreeing with your view in a peaceful manner. I don't wanna start an internet war calmly disagreeing that DD/KLOW not better than beal/wall. And DD being the reason why!

    No fight! Just a diplomatic disagreement. I'm doing it the Canadian way!

    Again

    Booooooooooooooo


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So we're agreeing to disagree?

    I like it. And on your opinion of Wall/Beal being better than Lowry/DD:


    Booooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  9. #68
    Raptors Republic Starter bryan colangelo's Avatar
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    Ignoring Lebron vs. everybody, I consider Wall/Beal our future nemesis(es?) in the East.

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    so anyone still think DD/lowry are better than wall/beal?
    Not I.

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  12. #70
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    I think Wall/Beal vs Lowry/Ross is a wash; that being said.. they are prolly the top 3 backcourts in the east next season

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    so anyone still think DD/lowry are better than wall/beal?
    Wall is really, really, really, really good.

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    You're gonna need some parameters to measure exactly what you mean by "better".

    Natural ability? Wall and Beal
    Athletism? Wall and Beal
    Leadership? Lowry and DD
    Influencial to team success? Probably just Rondo or Wall

    Lots of factors in deciding the "best", so the question can't really be answered or even properly argued.

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    I also think Lowry/Derozan is better than Wall/Beal at this moment. In two years time though, that's a scary combo.

    I like Derozan a lot better than Beal at this point, and Lowry is nearly a wash with Wall.

    I still think the Raptors beat Washington in a 7 game series. The three best teams in the East right now were all on the same side of the bracket.

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    Quote Stevo wrote: View Post
    You're gonna need some parameters to measure exactly what you mean by "better".

    Natural ability? Wall and Beal
    Athletism? Wall and Beal
    Leadership? Lowry and DD
    Influencial to team success? Probably just Rondo or Wall

    Lots of factors in deciding the "best", so the question can't really be answered or even properly argued.
    Well here's a pretty solid interpretation: If you were trying to build the best team you could, for one year only, which backcourt duo would you take?

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    so anyone still think DD/lowry are better than wall/beal?
    Going off these playoffs, then yes.

    Derozan - TS %: .550, 23.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.1 spg, 2.6 tov, 18.35 PER
    Beal - TS %: .572, 20.7 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 2 tov, 19.38 PER

    Lowry - TS %: .567, 21.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.7 apg, 0.9 spg, 2.9 tov, 17.59 PER
    Wall - TS %: .470, 17.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 7.2 apg, 2 spg, 2.2 tov, 17.63 PER

    Beal has a slightly higher TS% and PER, but him and Derozan are fairly comparable statistically. If you just look at Beal's FG%/3PT% and compare them to Derozan's, it seems like he was far more efficient. But that simply isn't the case. Derozan's ability to get to the free throw line and convert at a 90% rate cannot be overlooked. I'd say Beal was slightly better than Derozan, but it's extremely close.

    Now moving on to Lowry and Wall. They had nearly identical PER's in the first round, but Wall's TS% was absolutely atrocious. From a shooting efficiency standpoint, he was one of the worst starters in the first round of the playoffs. Wall did have significantly more assists, more steals, and less turnovers, but this does not make up for how horrible he shot. Lowry was the far better player in the first round of these playoffs.

    Both back courts were very good, but I'd say Lowry/Derozan slightly outperformed Wall/Beal, at least from a statistical standpoint.

  18. #76
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote leach11 wrote: View Post
    Going off these playoffs, then yes.

    Derozan - TS %: .550, 23.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.1 spg, 2.6 tov, 18.35 PER
    Beal - TS %: .572, 20.7 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 2 tov, 19.38 PER

    Lowry - TS %: .567, 21.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.7 apg, 0.9 spg, 2.9 tov, 17.59 PER
    Wall - TS %: .470, 17.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 7.2 apg, 2 spg, 2.2 tov, 17.63 PER

    Beal has a slightly higher TS% and PER, but him and Derozan are fairly comparable statistically. If you just look at Beal's FG%/3PT% and compare them to Derozan's, it seems like he was far more efficient. But that simply isn't the case. Derozan's ability to get to the free throw line and convert at a 90% rate cannot be overlooked. I'd say Beal was slightly better than Derozan, but it's extremely close.

    Now moving on to Lowry and Wall. They had nearly identical PER's in the first round, but Wall's TS% was absolutely atrocious. From a shooting efficiency standpoint, he was one of the worst starters in the first round of the playoffs. Wall did have significantly more assists, more steals, and less turnovers, but this does not make up for how horrible he shot. Lowry was the far better player in the first round of these playoffs.

    Both back courts were very good, but I'd say Lowry/Derozan slightly outperformed Wall/Beal, at least from a statistical standpoint.
    Looking at those numbers, you've actually convinced me Beal/Wall had a better playoff performance. Wall assisted way more, and doubled Lowrys steals while turning over less. The TS% is low for Wall, but everything else he does in the game is the reason why his PER is higher. Beal trumps Derozan in every category other than ppg. These numbers clearly point to Beal/Wall > Lowry/Derozan
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  20. #77
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Looking at those numbers, you've actually convinced me Beal/Wall had a better playoff performance. Wall assisted way more, and doubled Lowrys steals while turning over less. The TS% is low for Wall, but everything else he does in the game is the reason why his PER is higher. Beal trumps Derozan in every category other than ppg. These numbers clearly point to Beal/Wall > Lowry/Derozan
    well, actually, his PER is probably higher because it credits players for missed shots - which is a flawed way to try and make up for high USG% players being more valuable.

    but whatever, i kinda came to the same conclusion as you.

    except that Lowry plays something close to lock down D, and steals doesn't credit him for all the offensive fouls he drew.

    I think it's pretty close to a wash.

    On the other hand, Wall and Beal are younger, so their future looks better. But on the other, other hand, Beal probably can't maintain the level he's playing at right now, he'll probably regress a little.

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    Quote leach11 wrote: View Post
    Going off these playoffs, then yes.

    Derozan - TS %: .550, 23.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.1 spg, 2.6 tov, 18.35 PER
    Beal - TS %: .572, 20.7 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 2 tov, 19.38 PER

    Lowry - TS %: .567, 21.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.7 apg, 0.9 spg, 2.9 tov, 17.59 PER
    Wall - TS %: .470, 17.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 7.2 apg, 2 spg, 2.2 tov, 17.63 PER

    Beal has a slightly higher TS% and PER, but him and Derozan are fairly comparable statistically. If you just look at Beal's FG%/3PT% and compare them to Derozan's, it seems like he was far more efficient. But that simply isn't the case. Derozan's ability to get to the free throw line and convert at a 90% rate cannot be overlooked. I'd say Beal was slightly better than Derozan, but it's extremely close.

    Now moving on to Lowry and Wall. They had nearly identical PER's in the first round, but Wall's TS% was absolutely atrocious. From a shooting efficiency standpoint, he was one of the worst starters in the first round of the playoffs. Wall did have significantly more assists, more steals, and less turnovers, but this does not make up for how horrible he shot. Lowry was the far better player in the first round of these playoffs.

    Both back courts were very good, but I'd say Lowry/Derozan slightly outperformed Wall/Beal, at least from a statistical standpoint.
    In terms of efficiency, you also have to take into consideration we played brooklyn who are in top 10 WORST defense while Washington played Chicago who are the top defensive team in the entire league.

    Overall I would still take beal/wall over DD/lowry considering wall is 23 and beal is only 20, which is insane.

  22. #79
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Looking at those numbers, you've actually convinced me Beal/Wall had a better playoff performance. Wall assisted way more, and doubled Lowrys steals while turning over less. The TS% is low for Wall, but everything else he does in the game is the reason why his PER is higher. Beal trumps Derozan in every category other than ppg. These numbers clearly point to Beal/Wall > Lowry/Derozan
    Wall's TS% isn't just low though, it's absolutely terrible. His and Lowry's PER are essentially the exact same, but PER undervalues shooting efficiency.

    Derozan's TS% is slightly less than Beal's, but he's also scoring over 3 points more per game. As you said though, Beal is better statisically in the other categories.

    The numbers don't clearly point to either, but they do show that there is reasonable debate here.

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    In terms of efficiency, you also have to take into consideration we played brooklyn who are in top 10 WORST defense while Washington played Chicago who are the top defensive team in the entire league.

    Overall I would still take beal/wall over DD/lowry considering wall is 23 and beal is only 20, which is insane.
    Going forward, you're definitely right. I mean, if Derozan can substantially improve again this off season, then it will continue to be debatable, but the rational decision would be to take Beal/Wall going forward. I was just looking at who was better in this playoffs alone.

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