View Poll Results: If VC formally apologizes to Raps fans would u b ok with the franchise honouring him?

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  • Yes

    9 56.25%
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    5 31.25%
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Thread: SN: "Vince Carter: The re-imagination of VC"

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Rookie gametime's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    It would open old wounds and only really serve a single player in the twilight of his career - an ironic twist, given the biggest complaint about VC was always his ego and constantly putting himself ahead of his team.
    Good points. I was in my early 20's when VC was dealt for peanuts to the Nets. I remember how infuriating it was to watch him quit on the team, and than for the franchise to be set back, both reputation & asset wise. I don't think his jersey should be retired (and I was a jersey wearing supporter of Vince).
    - But your last sentence is an interesting one, regarding VC's "ego and constantly putting himself ahead of his team"

    My view on that is he has all the means to let his actions (no more words), but actions, show people he's "matured" and is ready to face the music for quitting on the team (that lowered both his and the team's value)
    - So either he can continue feeding his self serving ego with tv segments, crossing his fingers it's enough for the new MLSE owners to honour him in some fashion; or he can look in the mirror, realize that nothing worthwhile comes easy and that it will be hard to return to the Raptors roster as a bench player, but accept it and put in the work every day (on and off the court), allowing the chips to fall as they may, but allowing himself to one day retire knowing he made the effort for his teammates and in the community (which will not be enough for many, but to some, it will restore at least 'some' level of respect to the person that was the ultimate face of the franchise).

    ...And for what it's worth, I do think MLSE is planning to capitalize on opening up "old wounds" (as you said) as part of the re-branding strategy...

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    can someone explain to me why vince should have his jersy retired in toronto? no championships and asked to leave the franchise.

    while he was here was I not entertained, yes I was but is that enough.

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  4. #83
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote gametime wrote: View Post
    Good points. I was in my early 20's when VC was dealt for peanuts to the Nets. I remember how infuriating it was to watch him quit on the team, and than for the franchise to be set back, both reputation & asset wise. I don't think his jersey should be retired (and I was a jersey wearing supporter of Vince).
    - But your last sentence is an interesting one, regarding VC's "ego and constantly putting himself ahead of his team"

    My view on that is he has all the means to let his actions (no more words), but actions, show people he's "matured" and is ready to face the music for quitting on the team (that lowered both his and the team's value)
    - So either he can continue feeding his self serving ego with tv segments, crossing his fingers it's enough for the new MLSE owners to honour him in some fashion; or he can look in the mirror, realize that nothing worthwhile comes easy and that it will be hard to return to the Raptors roster as a bench player, but accept it and put in the work every day (on and off the court), allowing the chips to fall as they may, but allowing himself to one day retire knowing he made the effort for his teammates and in the community (which will not be enough for many, but to some, it will restore at least 'some' level of respect to the person that was the ultimate face of the franchise).

    ...And for what it's worth, I do think MLSE is planning to capitalize on opening up "old wounds" (as you said) as part of the re-branding strategy...
    I get what you're saying with regards to his actions of coming back to Toronto, but I still see no basketball-related reason why Toronto would want him back. No matter how either side spins it, any reunion between the Raptors and VC will be purely out of PR motivation. As a fan who let the past go a long time ago, any overture made by VC would be met with a "thanks, but no thanks" response (if I were MU).

    As to the bold, I certainly hope you are wrong. How does digging up a controversial past and opening old wounds link to a re-branding? Re-branding is all about looking ahead to a better future, not regurgitating a pathetic past. VC represents the highest highs and the lowest lows of Raptors basketball over the first 20 years of the franchise's existence. As both a fan and a marketer with a decade of brand management experience, reintroducing VC into the Raptors 'family' would completely overshadow and undermine a re-branding strategy. It just seems entirely counter-intuitive, given the way he left and the overwhelming sentiment expressed by fans since.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jan 21st, 2014 at 06:13 PM.

  5. #84
    Raptors Republic Rookie gametime's Avatar
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    We're actually speaking the same language, definitely agree, and I'm not saying MLSE allowing VC back into all the headlines is "right" (including how much Drake has been pumping him up)... Far from it... BUT I do think it's part of the first waves before the re-brand is fully launched... I can see MLSE revisiting the hardships of the past, they're going to put people back into a painful mindset, and talk about rising from the ashes, us against the world, etc... (like you, I won't be applauding that route should it come to fruition, as I'd rather freshness)

  6. #85
    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    yes, it is childish, and unfair.

    hpw people cant separate real life from entertainment is beyond me.

    What another person makes, has zero to do with you. Get over it. its not a point of contention.

    Most people behave as if the shit they have done in their own lives has been perfect.

    Perhaps none of you have made any mistakes.... great, but I would imagine none of you have done anything of any real value or interests to the general population either.... so really, nobody gives a shit.

    You guys speak as though somehow you have been personally offended, which to me is hilarious, because you are so far away from the actual issue, nothing matters.... you just think it does in your own sad little worlds.

    Sp hey man, yeah, HATE away. Hate that anpother man makes so much cash for what he does. hate that he doesnt kick ass for the SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT product you choose to worship.... hate it all. Totally cool, totally stable and rational. Ima just stay over here in " it doesnt affectmesville" and be happy. It takes a bit more than some underachieving athlete to get me gooing nowadays, and for ANY individual out there doing his thing, I tend to thin kits all good. Live and let live, save you stupid as fuck judgments for yourself, in the end, you will likely see just how ridiculous it all is.

    Have fun hating guys.... see where it gets ya in the end.
    In general I agree with your live and let live attitude, and I don't really hold any bad feelings towards VC and would even welcome him back, but seriously, you come across as a judgemental a-hole.

    Just because you think no one should be angry at VC for quitting on the team doesn't mean everyone must or even should think the same. Your thoughts and ideas are just that - your own. Not everyone is like you, and just because some don't believe VC should be re-acquired, honoured or let off the hook, doesn't mean they're pathetic or childish, it just means they have an opinion.

    Assuming these guys are aren't stable because they still don't like Carter is completely irrational, it just shows that their memory is a little bit longer than yours or mine and if they aren't as quick to let things go, so be it. You don't have to be smug about it.

    "Have fun hating.... see where it gets ya in the end."

    Your whole holier-than-thou approach isn't only annoying, it shows an extreme level of arrogance on your part.


    -----

    I was about 18 when Carter was traded, and I was super pissed... but at this point I don't really care any more and I think it might be cool to see him in a raps uniform, if only for nostalgia's sake.
    Last edited by AJ360; Tue Jan 21st, 2014 at 06:32 PM.

  7. #86
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote gametime wrote: View Post
    We're actually speaking the same language, definitely agree, and I'm not saying MLSE allowing VC back into all the headlines is "right" (including how much Drake has been pumping him up)... Far from it... BUT I do think it's part of the first waves before the re-brand is fully launched... I can see MLSE revisiting the hardships of the past, they're going to put people back into a painful mindset, and talk about rising from the ashes, us against the world, etc... (like you, I won't be applauding that route should it come to fruition, as I'd rather freshness)
    There's nothing at all wrong with remembering all the good things he did with/for the franchise, or reliving the good times. It's all part of the Raptors' history and nothing will ever tarnish the positives associated with VC (ie: winning the dunk contest and putting Toronto on the global NBA map, or leading the Raptors to game 7 and just one bounce away from the EC finals).

    The idea of bringing him personally back into the fold is what I have an issue with. Remember and celebrate the franchise's past, but just leave VC there.

  8. #87
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Meh, this isn't even an argument, you can find 1000 articles both clinical and anecdotal who's topic is fanaticism, or sports fan who take it too far.

    Arrogant?
    Holier than thou?

    You man, you need to grow up a bit. I didn't just offer that stuff, i was pushed nicely by a guy and I fired back. You can call me names, you can do your best, in the end I'm not even close to wrong, and I am not really worried if you believe I am.

    And I will reiterate, hate all you like, see where that approach gets you in life... its dysfunctional and immature.

    Children, little kids do that.

  9. #88
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Just curious, can someone mention why this sudden swell of interest in Wince? Grange has written a big piece on his rehabiliation, I think Smith has a piece in the Star and something about Drake pushing the agenda I hear. I know he is in town with the Mavs but surely this all doesnt have anything to do with pumping up the game is it?

    Doesnt he get booed each time he comes to town. Personally I'd rather give the silent treatment of disinterest than participate in throat clearing So, how does rejection by the paying members at the ACC translate into a concerted effort by our scribes to go to bat for VC. Strange.

  10. #89
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    I think they would love to cover that story if it happened Bendit, because really, it would be a HUGE one. I'd love it. I like that kind of thing.

    The fact that you can see it being manufactured is a little sad, because clearly something is up.

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  12. #90
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Meh, this isn't even an argument, you can find 1000 articles both clinical and anecdotal who's topic is fanaticism, or sports fan who take it too far.

    Arrogant?
    Holier than thou?

    You man, you need to grow up a bit. I didn't just offer that stuff, i was pushed nicely by a guy and I fired back. You can call me names, you can do your best, in the end I'm not even close to wrong, and I am not really worried if you believe I am.

    And I will reiterate, hate all you like, see where that approach gets you in life... its dysfunctional and immature.

    Children, little kids do that.
    I think the bigger concern (at least for me) is the implication that any sort of anti-VC opinion is "hate".

    I objectively review the facts and come to the personal conclusion that I would prefer VC to have no future association with the Toronto Raptors franchise.

    Having that opinion does not mean I "hate" VC, therefore my opinion is not the least bit immature or dysfunctional, according to the subjective logic you've been applying.

  13. #91
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I have no problem with SN doing something on Vince.. but it is simply a marketing ploy. I don't like how Vince plays the game anymore (well ever since his NJ days). He's basically a jump shooter, and we have plenty of those. So if the idea is to have him sign with the Raptors next season then I think its a ridiculous idea.

    And the Raptors better not retire his jersey. That would piss me off.

  14. #92
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Just curious, can someone mention why this sudden swell of interest in Wince? Grange has written a big piece on his rehabiliation, I think Smith has a piece in the Star and something about Drake pushing the agenda I hear. I know he is in town with the Mavs but surely this all doesnt have anything to do with pumping up the game is it?

    Doesnt he get booed each time he comes to town. Personally I'd rather give the silent treatment of disinterest than participate in throat clearing So, how does rejection by the paying members at the ACC translate into a concerted effort by our scribes to go to bat for VC. Strange.
    It's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread but it's a good thought. We host the all star game in 2 years on our 20th anniversary. It would probably involve a celebration of our history. How would that look if we boo our whole history?

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  16. #93
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    That's a good point. Even if Damon, Vince, Bosh and umm.. err.. De uhh.. Valanciunas stand together representing various "eras", it would look pretty stupid to the rest of the world if you heard booing when they showed highlights of any one of those periods of Raptors history. Forget HOF for a minute, or retiring of jerseys.. but just having them stand there. Fans would look extremely foolish.

    Though truth be told, it'll be a different crowd at the ASG than the usual fans that show up to the games.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #94
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer MACK11's Avatar
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    Why this sudden push to make the crowd like Vince Carter again?

    They clearly want to retire his jersey in the future, but I don't think quitting on your team should be celebrated. I don't care about all the other garbage surrounding Carter, I saw with my own eyes how he gave up. My opinion of him won't change.
    Bring back the physical game and send the softies home.

  18. #95
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    This whole thing is just ridiculous. It's crazy. People seriously needs to MOVE ON. It's been 10 years!!

    If you were in a relationship, and this girl that you were in a relationship with broke up with you. Would it also take years and years for you to move on??? or will you ever move on? lol.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  19. #96
    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    Quote 4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
    Why this sudden push to make the crowd like Vince Carter again?

    They clearly want to retire his jersey in the future, but I don't think quitting on your team should be celebrated. I don't care about all the other garbage surrounding Carter, I saw with my own eyes how he gave up. My opinion of him won't change.
    totally agree with you 4hunnit ... the kind of person I would want to retire is roy halladay

    2 years before his contract ran out he told management he would leave unless they were competing for championships. He still went out and played at a high level, he never caused any problems. Once he was traded he took out a full page ad saying thank you to the fans. a total class act

    that's the kind of person I would want to honor not VC. he quit on the team and forced his way out. ( don't forget he told the seattle supersonics what play we were going to run in game before he was traded )

    that's not the kind of player we would uphold to honour ever. .Im not angry anymore its just a game and I enjoy the fun of people booing him in the context of the game without any sense of anger but for me I would honor only those of the highest level of people who were dedicated to the team or achieved a high amount of success and losing once in the 2nd round doesn't do it

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  21. #97
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Not sure exactly how to watch this thing.. I think it's a magazine article along with a show, but I'm not sure when it airs.. I'll have to check my tv guide thing and see. Anyway, there's a recorded part of a radio show on sportsnet now, Michael Grange with Friedman and the other guy.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...-vince-carter/

    I particularly enjoyed the comments made from young canadian players (via Grange.. I suspect the article/special will show more of it?), and I think the conversation at the end, the last 2 minutes or so was kind enlightening to me.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  22. #98
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Btw, I had no idea that Sportsnet has their own magazine. I'm guessing that this is something they need to market a bit more considering how much sports intake I get on a daily basis. Granted I'm not really into the magazine scene but I should have at least heard of it.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  23. #99
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    This whole thing is just ridiculous. It's crazy. People seriously needs to MOVE ON. It's been 10 years!!

    If you were in a relationship, and this girl that you were in a relationship with broke up with you. Would it also take years and years for you to move on??? or will you ever move on? lol.
    We've all moved on, but some of us aren't interested in getting back together.

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  25. #100
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    This whole thing just reeks of PR and marketing like others have mentioned. This just seems to be a way to get money out of your pocket. I want no part in it, but if you want to "celebrate" Vince's illustrious career by bringing him back to the franchise, buying a retro jersey or bobblehead and telling him he is forgiven then by all means. Fortunately for me, I have better things to do with my disposable income than fatten the coffers of Bell/Rogers. I do enough of that in my 'everyday' living.

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