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SN: "Vince Carter: The re-imagination of VC"

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  • gametime wrote: View Post
    It doesn't, but it's interesting. Would you rather talk to KD with Drake (his buddy) & possibly VC (his fav player growing up) in the mix, or do you think your odds are just as good without the influence of those two?

    BTW: Anyone else hear JYD on 590 today? He said that VC owed the fans an apology, and even quoted some of the things VC said.
    Interesting. Anyone have a link to the audio?

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    • .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
      Interesting. Anyone have a link to the audio?
      To hear JYD say VC owes the fans "a formal apology", click the link below and click the pic of Vince to start playing:
      http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/tim-and-sid/
      (Skip to the 1:50minute mark)

      Comment


      • Vince quit on us, and now we trade for him so he can retire here. We owe him shit, he quit on us period. Same dam thing goes for Bosh as well. They leave and then expect us as fans to embrace them and stop booing. Vince didn't have any problem flaunting when he was dropping 30 on us in the playoffs as soon as we traded him. Let him rot somewhere else except here. He could of been something very special, but money and fame are what he thought he wouldn't get here so he moved, no worries. But he quit, he didn't just leave, he stopped playing for us stopped trying to win.

        Bosh as well with all his bull crap holding us at bay, like his decision was along the same lines as LeBron and wade. Bosh is expendable there, he's not the superstar there that he thought he was here. Even though he was a re best player, do we ask for him to come back. Hell no, they can enjoy there lives somewhere else, now that things are going good with the club we have, are they gonna come back and be the missing piece. Screw'em both

        As for this leading to KD. Well he began negotiating his next extension already, so he isn't coming here guys. That was reported months ago at the beginning of the season.

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        • delman21 wrote: View Post
          Vince quit on us, and now we trade for him so he can retire here. We owe him shit, he quit on us period. Same dam thing goes for Bosh as well. They leave and then expect us as fans to embrace them and stop booing. Vince didn't have any problem flaunting when he was dropping 30 on us in the playoffs as soon as we traded him. Let him rot somewhere else except here. He could of been something very special, but money and fame are what he thought he wouldn't get here so he moved, no worries. But he quit, he didn't just leave, he stopped playing for us stopped trying to win.

          Bosh as well with all his bull crap holding us at bay, like his decision was along the same lines as LeBron and wade. Bosh is expendable there, he's not the superstar there that he thought he was here. Even though he was a re best player, do we ask for him to come back. Hell no, they can enjoy there lives somewhere else, now that things are going good with the club we have, are they gonna come back and be the missing piece. Screw'em both

          As for this leading to KD. Well he began negotiating his next extension already, so he isn't coming here guys. That was reported months ago at the beginning of the season.
          VC and bosh are completely unrelated cases. there is no campaign to bring bosh back.

          as for KD, hes most definitely not negotiating any extensions right now. why the fuck would he? hes still there till 2016.

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          • Added a poll to this thread. Curious, for those Raps fans who don't agree with the organization potentially honouring VC, would a formal apology from him change your mind? Even if you don't think the organization should honour him, would an apology be the closure you need to finally reconcile with him and let go of the "hate"?

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            • .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
              Added a poll to this thread. Curious, for those Raps fans who don't agree with the organization potentially honouring VC, would a formal apology from him change your mind? Even if you don't think the organization should honour him, would an apology be the closure you need to finally reconcile with him and let go of the "hate"?
              Well a formal apology would go a long way imo, I personally don't hate Vince at all I'm just against honoring a player that quit on his team and the city.
              "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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              • 4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
                Well a formal apology would go a long way imo, I personally don't hate Vince at all I'm just against honoring a player that quit on his team and the city.
                But if he apologized and admitted his mistakes (btw I doubt that would happen), but if he did, would that satisfy you enough that you'd be cool with the Raps retiring his jersey or whatever?

                I ask cuz I think that for the majority of fans who still can't let go of the fact he did us/the organization wrong, the apology is all that is needed. Just a hunch.

                In any case it's clear that the tide of opinion is changing. It looks like even without the apology some fans are willing to let bygones be bygones. A significant amount of fans were actually standing up and applauding the guy. Crazy. Well it has been a decade after all.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                • .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
                  Added a poll to this thread. Curious, for those Raps fans who don't agree with the organization potentially honouring VC, would a formal apology from him change your mind? Even if you don't think the organization should honour him, would an apology be the closure you need to finally reconcile with him and let go of the "hate"?
                  Why does it have to be "hate" if we don't like what Vince Carter did and don't like the idea of honoring him? People keep saying this but those who are arguing against honors are for the most part arguing points based on principals and logic. Those who are saying, "hey it's water under the bridge" are the people driven by an emotional attachment(nostalgia) if anything.

                  For me, I already said that weak ass apologies aren't going to cut it. If he booked an hour long special on his "decision" and laid it all out there with honesty and was genuinely sorry then let's see...

                  For the record, if he left the same time and on good terms I still would believe that he didn't do enough to receive the honor of no one being allowed to wear his number ever again and to make a shrine of it. A second round elimination and a dunk contest win is going to seem small in the grand scheme of things if you're thinking 20-30 years out. Look around the league and check out what other players had to do to get such honors for their teams.

                  Comment


                  • Here's my final take on this whole thing.
                    All of you Carter fans, clearly weren't real Raptor fans back in the day, or you'd remember how much damage he did to the organization, both privately and publicly, on, and OFF the court.
                    Did he put this team on the map? Yes. Did he inspire a HUGE wave of new players and is largely responsible for Canada's love for basketball? Absolutely.
                    But he also equally responsible for overtly DISRESPECTING this organization, and being a cancer to it at the end of his tenure on MORE than one occasion. Going so far as to say openly in interviews that he regularly wouldn't give his all in games. Which was his paid JOB to do.
                    Do none of you remember the Mo Pete ejection? That he was responsible for? HELLO. I won't even get into what we got in exchange for trading away one of the greatest players in the NBA at that time...
                    Any of you that think his jersey should be retired, are crazy.. The thought is ludicrous. You'd be saying to the entire NBA that it's ok for an athlete to completely disrespect your team, figuratively spit on your beloved organization, because we'll take you back later with open arms. No worries.
                    No. Absolutely not.

                    You want to have a Raptors jersey retired? The line starts after Alvin Williams. ALVIN. WILLIAMS.
                    The man sacrificed the longevity of his career, and essentially gave us both his knees during our 'Purple Fever' days.
                    This is coming from someone who was a HUGE Vince fan, when he was playing here and playing hard for this team. But his jersey should not EVER be retired by the Toronto Raptors. The damage is done.
                    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                    • I don't care too much about Vince, I was at the game against San Antonio when he got hurt and I knew the guy's days were numbered here. The only little nitpicky reason I would be averse to retiring his jersey here would be because some of my other favourite raptors have worn the 15 since him (Garbo, Amir) and I feel like that would be like dishonouring their effort and work (they were the very opposite of Vince carter at the end of his tenure here, think about it)
                      A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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                      • I don't particularly care one way or another, but to flat out say there's no way he deserves it because he quit on the team for half a season (again, when the team also quit on him by going into rebuilding after he told them he didn't want to be part of a rebuild) is forgetting one important thing...

                        The NBA is a business. It's not politics, or religion. They're not designating a leader, or saint. If the franchise decides it'll be good for business to retire his jersey, they'll do it. They won't care if it'll rub a part of the fanbase the wrong way. That segment will get over it because they'll still want to cheer for the Raptors anyway.

                        I don't care about retiring his number, or even whether he makes the HOF. There are arguments for both with some merit regardless of what fans who still hate him think. The former especially though, especially way more down the road (like another 10-15+ years) is probably pretty likely. At some point they'll want to do something to generate some publicity and revenue, and they'll want to hang his jersey and have a big celebration. They can start selling Carter jerseys again, have nostalgic stories air about the "first good days of the franchise", make a better TV special than the one on last night, use it as a platform to sell other crap related to that era, use it as a gimmick in multiple games leading up to the actual event...etc...etc....

                        4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
                        You want to have a Raptors jersey retired? The line starts after Alvin Williams. ALVIN. WILLIAMS.
                        The man sacrificed the longevity of his career, and essentially gave us both his knees during our 'Purple Fever' days.
                        Hahaha. I wish. To this day, it's the only Raptors jersey I own. When I go to games and see people with Bargnani jerseys, I wonder how they can have any self-respect.

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                        • Apollo wrote: View Post
                          Why does it have to be "hate" if we don't like what Vince Carter did and don't like the idea of honoring him? People keep saying this but those who are arguing against honors are for the most part arguing points based on principals and logic. Those who are saying, "hey it's water under the bridge" are the people driven by an emotional attachment(nostalgia) if anything.

                          For me, I already said that weak ass apologies aren't going to cut it. If he booked an hour long special on his "decision" and laid it all out there with honesty and was genuinely sorry then let's see...

                          For the record, if he left the same time and on good terms I still would believe that he didn't do enough to receive the honor of no one being allowed to wear his number ever again and to make a shrine of it. A second round elimination and a dunk contest win is going to seem small in the grand scheme of things if you're thinking 20-30 years out. Look around the league and check out what other players had to do to get such honors for their teams.
                          I didn't mean literal "hate" or whatever, which is why I put it in quotations. I get that some of those who are against honouring VC, are so, based on principals rather than emotion. And I get that for some it's based on neither, but rather on the belief that he didn't have enough team success while he was here to deserve it.

                          Personally, if I had to base it strictly on principals, I would have to say a big "fuck no" to the idea of honouring the guy. If I were to base it strictly on personal and/or team success he would fall just short of the criteria to have his jersey retired. But looking at the bigger picture it's so much more than just wins and loses, personal stats, personal principals. Dude did an immeasurable amount of good for the franchise, NBA, basketball in Canada etc etc. If not for his years here I don't think it's too far fetched to believe in the possibility that we might not have a franchise today. And yes I can't lie nostalgia does come into play for me when I come to the conclusion that honouring the guy is the right thing to do. Really the only that has me iffy is that apology to the fans and organization. If that ever comes than definitely there is no reason not to honour the guy imo.

                          And if I'm not mistaken MLSE has a policy of not retiring individual player numbers (look at Leafs). Rather they honour the player by hangin his jersey in the rafters. Future players can still use the number. May not seem like much but this small detail is the icing on the cake for me, cuz tbh I don't think his number should be outright retired. I do think though hanging his jersey would be a good idea.

                          Comment


                          • .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
                            I didn't mean literal "hate" or whatever, which is why I put it in quotations. I get that some of those who are against honouring VC, are so, based on principals rather than emotion. And I get that for some it's based on neither, but rather on the belief that he didn't have enough team success while he was here to deserve it.

                            Personally, if I had to base it strictly on principals, I would have to say a big "fuck no" to the idea of honouring the guy. If I were to base it strictly on personal and/or team success he would fall just short of the criteria to have his jersey retired. But looking at the bigger picture it's so much more than just wins and loses, personal stats, personal principals. Dude did an immeasurable amount of good for the franchise, NBA, basketball in Canada etc etc. If not for his years here I don't think it's too far fetched to believe in the possibility that we might not have a franchise today. And yes I can't lie nostalgia does come into play for me when I come to the conclusion that honouring the guy is the right thing to do. Really the only that has me iffy is that apology to the fans and organization. If that ever comes than definitely there is no reason not to honour the guy imo.

                            And if I'm not mistaken MLSE has a policy of not retiring individual player numbers (look at Leafs). Rather they honour the player by hangin his jersey in the rafters. Future players can still use the number. May not seem like much but this small detail is the icing on the cake for me, cuz tbh I don't think his number should be outright retired. I do think though hanging his jersey would be a good idea.
                            I completely understand the bolded argument, which many posters have made in favor of VC. Winning the dunk contest definitely helped put the Raptors on the international NBA map. However, the way he left the team (on top of fact that he left, period) had an equally (at least) negative impact on the franchise and the perception so many players, media and foreign fans have about playing in Toronto.

                            Mighty Mouse had the same sort of impact, first a huge positive, followed by a huge negative. They both put Toronto on the NBA map, only to walk out on their team, creating the perception that star players don't want to play in Canada. As far as I'm concerned, related to the bold, the way VC left completely undid everything positive he had previously done for the franchise. So at the end the day, all VC accomplished was winning the dunk contest and leading the Raptors to the 2nd round (and his decision to put himself ahead of the team by attending graduation diminishes that accomplishment).

                            I have no ill will towards VC. The team owes him nothing. The fans owe him nothing. It would be a disgrace to see him honored in any way, because he didn't earn it. It just reeks of desperation by the franchise, in an attempt to find somebody to honor ahead of the team's 20th anniversary and rebranding and all-star festivities.
                            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jan 24, 2014, 01:09 AM.

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                            • Franchise should honor him either way.

                              Comment


                              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                I completely understand the bolded argument, which many posters have made in favor of VC. Winning the dunk contest definitely helped put the Raptors on the international NBA map. However, the way he left the team (on top of fact that he left, period) had an equally (at least) negative impact on the franchise and the perception so many players, media and foreign fans have about playing in Toronto.

                                Mighty Mouse had the same sort of impact, first a huge positive, followed by a huge negative. They both put Toronto on the NBA map, only to walk out on their team, creating the perception that star players don't want to play in Canada. As far as I'm concerned, related to the bold, the way VC left completely undid everything positive he had previously done for the franchise. So at the end the day, all VC accomplished was winning the dunk contest and leading the Raptors to the 2nd round (and his decision to put himself ahead of the team by attending graduation diminishes that accomplishment).

                                I have no ill will towards VC. The team owes him nothing. The fans owe him nothing. It would be a disgrace to see him honored in any way, because he didn't earn it.
                                Bold 1: No doubt the way he left had a negative impact, but I wouldn't say it was equal to his positive contributions (but that's all subjective). Let's not forget though that he was not alone in the role of his departure. Management, the franchise, the media, all had their part in him leaving and the perception created out there. It's not all on VC.

                                Bold 2: Dude we can't even begin to compare the level of impact the two had on the franchise. Two different leagues man.

                                Bold 3: I don't think that's accurate. His positive contributions lasted for years after he left. He helped (along w/ management, the franchise, the media) to build the fanbase we have in Toronto and Canada, hell internationally . People who would never otherwise have been Raptor fans are fans because of him and are still around today. He also helped to influence the next generation of ball players in Canada.

                                Listen by no means am I a VC fanboy. I'm not trying to absolve him of his actions. I haven't forgotten all the bullshit he did. Truth be told when I read some posts and I am reminded of the things he did it still grinds my gears a little. I'm just trying to see the bigger picture and not let the media over hyped drama of a few months overshadow the positive impact he had on this franchise. Anyways this is probably similar to the tank, no tank debate in that whichever side your on, your on. I'm not trying to sway anybody's opinion really just throwing in my two cents.

                                Cheers

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