View Poll Results: If VC formally apologizes to Raps fans would u b ok with the franchise honouring him?

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  • Yes

    9 56.25%
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Thread: SN: "Vince Carter: The re-imagination of VC"

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think what you meant to say was:
    I was a huge Vince fan from the start but Babcock handcuffed this franchise. His trade is one of the worst of all time. A player of Vince's calibre got traded for virtually nothing and that is Babcock's fault. Vince immediately started playing like we all knew he could as soon as he got to NJ. I'm not out for revenge or anything but let's not ignore the latter when it comes to forgiving and forgetting. Vince did a lot for this franchise, but I watched A LOT of terrible games after his departure and that's what I'll remember him for. Incredible talent, incredibly wasted.
    While the responsibility for the actual trade was Babcocks fault, Vince did a total one man **** job that sank his value and definitely contributed to his lowered market value. Every other team knew he was dogging it and that he wanted out and that the franchise was in a weakened position with nearly zero leverage in negotiations. If the raps'd had a better/stronger management structure in place then things might have turned out differently. That however doesn't change the fact that Vince did everything he could to get what he wanted and basically said f*ck the team, f*ck the franchise, f*ck the fans. He was unprofessional and it definitely had an impact on his value.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    This is such pussy Canadian mentality. You let someone burn you and then you beg them for forgiveness.


  4. #23
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    This is such pussy Canadian mentality. You let someone burn you and then you beg them for forgiveness.
    Love the .gif but,
    I don't think ANYONE is asking Vince to forgive us. No one is begging for his forgiveness. I believe this SN film will show Vince saying everything just short of an apology and essentially asking us to forgive him. Not the other way around. He clearly wants to come back here and have his number retired. When we all collectively boo former players for past sins a decade after the fact who is it that looks like the "whiny little bitches"? It's us. Let's move on

  5. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Thornbury wrote: View Post
    Love the .gif but,
    I don't think ANYONE is asking Vince to forgive us. No one is begging for his forgiveness. I believe this SN film will show Vince saying everything just short of an apology and essentially asking us to forgive him. Not the other way around. He clearly wants to come back here and have his number retired. When we all collectively boo former players for past sins a decade after the fact who is it that looks like the "whiny little bitches"? It's us. Let's move on
    When you move on from an ex you don't send them a birthday present, you just move on.

  6. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    I like the idea, the whole vc thing was traumatic, and scarred the franchise, fan base and his career. If we keep Lowry and Amir, add Tyler Ennis and bring in VC we can generate some excitement and bring closure. Might as well give the whole story a chance to end well. He's our anakin skywalker.

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  7. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    can't read this whole thread, but just my two cents:

    I definitely see this as part of the rebranding. Change the VC days from a negative (no player wants to play here) to a positive: remember when we had that sick athlete who held the league's breath.

    That's good for marketing fans and players (FAs).

  8. #27
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    This is not good.... this is one of those... VC might come back to the Raptors kinda thing.....

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO x a million

  9. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    When you move on from an ex you don't send them a birthday present, you just move on.
    Not judging those who remain angry at Vince, but I feel this is a poor analogy.

    A lot of people remain amicable friends with their ex's. It shows growth and maturity. Also, a relationship is a two-way street. Players aren't playing for you, they're playing for a pay cheque, teammates and coach. As fans, we aren't part of the relationship.. we're just spectators.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  10. #29
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Not judging those who remain angry at Vince, but I feel this is a poor analogy.

    A lot of people remain amicable friends with their ex's. It shows growth and maturity. Also, a relationship is a two-way street. Players aren't playing for you, they're playing for a pay cheque, teammates and coach. As fans, we aren't part of the relationship.. we're just spectators.
    You're right that VC was employed by the Raptors franchise to play basketball hard and do everything possible to help the team win; he never did owe anything to the fans. He has admitted to purposefully not giving full effort and not caring whether the team won, while being employed.

    To follow the analogy, he's more like an ex that cheated, admitted it, never apologized, and then took the house and kids in the divorce. Who talks to that kind of ex?!

    I've never cared one way or another about VC or any other former player. I've always said that the booing makes us look foolish and has even served to motivate Raptors' opponents (VC, TMac and Bosh have all publically stated that the continual booing motivated them while playing against the Raptors in Toronto). However, I really have no desire to see VC come back to the Raptors, unless it helps successfully lure Durant via free agency in 2016.

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  12. #30
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    "Imagine a time....a place....where Vince Carter...didn't whine and fake injuries, and sulk on the bench, covered in Gatorade towels"

    I loved Vince, still do, but all this reminiscing is getting a little bit much. Like we lost one of the greats of our generation..we lost a guy with all the talent in the world that never used it for anything of impact his whole career. Move on.
    If I could figure out how to like posts in the Tapatalk app this would be liked immediately.

    Vince Carter was a really good quitter who lacked the toughness and leadership abilities to overcome adversity and so he resorted to whining, leaking garbage and finally then taking games, exaggerating injuries and even in one case giving plays away in order to pressure the team into trading him. His selfish, egotistical, shortsighted acts killed all trade value and set the Raptors back years. He essentially gave a big F'you to the fans in the end.

    Memories fade, scars lighten but let's not let that cloud how he conducted himself and the long term implications. It wasn't the act of requesting a trade, it was how he forced the trade. It was dirty, unprofessional and unethical actions that were used on his part to force the Raptors hand.

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  14. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    can't read this whole thread, but just my two cents:

    I definitely see this as part of the rebranding. Change the VC days from a negative (no player wants to play here) to a positive: remember when we had that sick athlete who held the league's breath.

    That's good for marketing fans and players (FAs).
    I think this is a good point. I don't know about signing Vince and having him play here.. I think the wounds are too deep for that. But I think redefining or changing the way we think about Vince plays a big role in the rebranding of the team/franchise.

    If you look back on our nearly 20 years of existence, how many former GOOD players can you name that can come back to the ACC and not get booed? Let's say TL decides to throw a big 20th anniversary party and invite former players to come speak. He wouldn't be able to invite, for example, any of the Raptors who have made the All-Star game. Sure, we've got consummate pro's like Mo Pete, maybe a Jalen Rose because he loves publicity, and Alvin Williams. But what about our truly great players? T-Mac? Vince? Davis? Bosh? None of those guys can come because the fans would scream bloody murder, and I think that's really unfortunate.

    It would be really nice, for a change, to have a good player leave our team on good terms.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  15. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    You're right that VC was employed by the Raptors franchise to play basketball hard and do everything possible to help the team win; he never did owe anything to the fans. He has admitted to purposefully not giving full effort and not caring whether the team won, while being employed.

    To follow the analogy, he's more like an ex that cheated, admitted it, never apologized, and then took the house and kids in the divorce. Who talks to that kind of ex?!

    I've never cared one way or another about VC or any other former player. I've always said that the booing makes us look foolish and has even served to motivate Raptors' opponents (VC, TMac and Bosh have all publically stated that the continual booing motivated them while playing against the Raptors in Toronto). However, I really have no desire to see VC come back to the Raptors, unless it helps successfully lure Durant via free agency in 2016.
    Forgiveness is a funny thing, because it is often something that is given out when the other party doesn't deserve it. It would be difficult for me to forgive someone if they had made a promise to me and then broke that promise (such as your marriage infidelity example). But if I had hired a person to complete a job for me and he did it well for 5 out of 7 years, I don't think down the road I would be mad at this person. It would probably take a few years before I could trust him well enough to re-hire him, and I would probably spend a lot of time checking his references to make sure that his pattern of slacking are a thing of the past. But if I had developed a friendship with him over those years, I don't think I would stop being friends with him.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  16. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Forgiveness is a funny thing, because it is often something that is given out when the other party doesn't deserve it. It would be difficult for me to forgive someone if they had made a promise to me and then broke that promise (such as your marriage infidelity example). But if I had hired a person to complete a job for me and he did it well for 5 out of 7 years, I don't think down the road I would be mad at this person. It would probably take a few years before I could trust him well enough to re-hire him, and I would probably spend a lot of time checking his references to make sure that his pattern of slacking are a thing of the past. But if I had developed a friendship with him over those years, I don't think I would stop being friends with him.
    1) Athletes are employees to the team, not to the fans.

    2) Using your analogy, you have an employee you hire for 7 years, in year 5 he starts showing up to work late, slacking off, costing you business at every turn and selling your company's private info to competing companies and then laughing it off to your face.
    I doubt you bring him back for the ribbon cutting ceremony when opening your new building.

  17. #34
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Forgiveness is a funny thing, because it is often something that is given out when the other party doesn't deserve it. It would be difficult for me to forgive someone if they had made a promise to me and then broke that promise (such as your marriage infidelity example). But if I had hired a person to complete a job for me and he did it well for 5 out of 7 years, I don't think down the road I would be mad at this person. It would probably take a few years before I could trust him well enough to re-hire him, and I would probably spend a lot of time checking his references to make sure that his pattern of slacking are a thing of the past. But if I had developed a friendship with him over those years, I don't think I would stop being friends with him.
    Actions speak louder than words. Throwing out a "my bad" is easy to do. He's always gone for the easy route. The guy isn't sorry about it, come on. If he really cared about it he would have shown his sorriness with actions. He's never done this.

    What Vince did was a prolonged, premeditated string of actions to get his own way no matter the cost to the fans or the organization. It's not like he spilled his Shirley Temple on the hardwood, which led to water damage on the court or something. He ripped a huge hole in the franchise which you could argue they never recovered from. The Raptors signed all his key teammates(Davis, JYD, Alvin, etc.) to long term deals to get Vince to re-sign. In doing so they invested a lot of money into those guys. Those guys worked really well with Vince and you could argue they were worth it while playing with Vince. Vince ripped himself out of the equation, left the Raptors with nothing in return, along with a bunch of high priced, low value deadweight for the most part. Contracts they were stuck with for a long time which caused a real rebuild to be postponed for three years.

    Vince is a big boy and he knows what he did. He knew at the time what it would mean to the team, his teammates and the fans. He hasn't shown that he's sorry, he hasn't shown he gives a damn about anyone but himself.

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  19. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think what you meant to say was:
    I was a huge Vince fan from the start but Babcock handcuffed this franchise. His trade is one of the worst of all time. A player of Vince's calibre got traded for virtually nothing and that is Babcock's fault. Vince immediately started playing like we all knew he could as soon as he got to NJ. I'm not out for revenge or anything but let's not ignore the latter when it comes to forgiving and forgetting. Vince did a lot for this franchise, but I watched A LOT of terrible games after his departure and that's what I'll remember him for. Incredible talent, incredibly wasted.
    Babcock pulling the trigger on that trade is totally on him, but Vince gave up, complained, and was an absolute detriment to the city and franchise before his departure.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

    @clericalbeats

  20. #36
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    I wouldn't mind seeing VC back.

  21. #37
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    He has admitted to purposefully not giving full effort and not caring whether the team won, while being employed.
    Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

    Its not true.

    There are likely a very large number of players that would have answered that question exactly the same way.

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  23. #38
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Actions speak louder than words. Throwing out a "my bad" is easy to do. He's always gone for the easy route. The guy isn't sorry about it, come on. If he really cared about it he would have shown his sorriness with actions. He's never done this.

    What Vince did was a prolonged, premeditated string of actions to get his own way no matter the cost to the fans or the organization. It's not like he spilled his Shirley Temple on the hardwood, which led to water damage on the court or something. He ripped a huge hole in the franchise which you could argue they never recovered from. The Raptors signed all his key teammates(Davis, JYD, Alvin, etc.) to long term deals to get Vince to re-sign. In doing so they invested a lot of money into those guys. Those guys worked really well with Vince and you could argue they were worth it while playing with Vince. Vince ripped himself out of the equation, left the Raptors with nothing in return, along with a bunch of high priced, low value deadweight for the most part. Contracts they were stuck with for a long time which caused a real rebuild to be postponed for three years.

    Vince is a big boy and he knows what he did. He knew at the time what it would mean to the team, his teammates and the fans. He hasn't shown that he's sorry, he hasn't shown he gives a damn about anyone but himself.
    ha.
    ok

  24. #39
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".
    His numbers improved by like 50% in every category as soon as he got traded. You don't need a lie detector to figure out he wasn't giving full effort.

  25. #40
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