View Poll Results: If VC formally apologizes to Raps fans would u b ok with the franchise honouring him?

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Thread: SN: "Vince Carter: The re-imagination of VC"

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star iblastoff's Avatar
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    All this fucking whining. Each and everyone one of you should be down on your knees in front of VC and thanking the shit out of him or else I doubt this forum and website let alone the team would even still exist.

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  3. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

    Its not true.

    There are likely a very large number of players that would have answered that question exactly the same way.
    Well said.
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  4. #43
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

    Its not true.

    There are likely a very large number of players that would have answered that question exactly the same way.
    If you were watching back then:

    *You must have seen him play really well the season before the trade.

    *You must have seen him totally **** the season of the trade, averaging like 15ppg, becoming a liability on defence, giving no visible effort, broadcasting very negative body language, basically mopping around the court like a hurt puppy. Side note, what a self absorbed ass he was...

    *If you watched any nets games immediately after the trade you also must have seen him immediately revert back to vintage Carter overnight, doing everything really well. Actually putting in effort, driving to the rim, etc.


    I don't give a crap what the media says. I watched this all play our with my own two eye, I came to places like this to vent my shock, disappointment, disbelief, etc. This Carter saga is stained in my memory like it was yesterday. It was ridiculous and I think time is the only variable that has changed for some. I also realize that some of the best Raptors fans around may have been too young to remember this whole thing.

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  6. #44
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    All this fucking whining. Each and everyone one of you should be down on your knees in front of VC and thanking the shit out of him or else I doubt this forum and website let alone the team would even still exist.

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    Why is that? The only reason T-Mac left was because he wanted his own team. You trying to tell me a roster of McGrady, Jamison, Davis, Oak, Alvin, JYD, Dell Curry, Keon Clark, etc. couldn't win just as much if not more?

    Or maybe you're forgetting that the team had lots of followers and was not at risk. Maybe you're forgetting Stern' priority to globalize the sport?

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  8. #45
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    No, wait, you're right. Let's start The Church of Vince Carter. We can celebrate the day he was drafted with a tree and the day he got knocked out of the second round with some chocolate eggs.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If you were watching back then:

    *You must have seen him play really well the season before the trade.

    *You must have seen him totally **** the season of the trade, averaging like 15ppg, becoming a liability on defence, giving no visible effort, broadcasting very negative body language, basically mopping around the court like a hurt puppy. Side note, what a self absorbed ass he was...

    *If you watched any nets games immediately after the trade you also must have seen him immediately revert back to vintage Carter overnight, doing everything really well. Actually putting in effort, driving to the rim, etc.


    I don't give a crap what the media says. I watched this all play our with my own two eye, I came to places like this to vent my shock, disappointment, disbelief, etc. This Carter saga is stained in my memory like it was yesterday. It was ridiculous and I think time is the only variable that has changed for some. I also realize that some of the best Raptors fans around may have been too young to remember this whole thing.

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    I watched plenty. He was killing right around, or just after I was actually playing a pretty good level of ball in college. I knew what I was watching and at the time I was furious with him. He whined, he would let marginal injuries become an excuse to pout and give half assed efforts. He cracked under the pressure and gave immature interviews.

    I hated him.

    I was also a kid myself, mid to late 20's, had an idea, but not a clear understanding of how things in pro sports happen. How its a business, and its shady, and affected by business people who have no idea what they are doing, how it can affect players and how young men, coddled most their lives can sometimes crack under the stress, the exposure and deification. I wasn't completely able to see how ridiculous it was that the Raptors gave him so much say in who to sign after they had such a run.... and how the media can be so quick to turn on a young man who had made mistakes, and place a boatload of blame, and negativity upon shoulders that couldn't even handle the success, let alone the failure. I didn't quite understand. I just saw the result, and that result made me a little sick.

    I was in my 20's then. I am 41 now. I know the business of sports very well now. I see how things work. I am not at all unable to separate my anger for a small sample of a young mans action on the basketball court from the much larger, and much more complicated web of complications, lies, and half truths that are released to the media, twisted to create stories to sell advertising, and used to either create gods, or tear down mortal men at their leisure. I am ell aware of what I was watching back then. I was mentally equipped to understand it a high level due to my own experience, and as a fan I was privy to the anger we get when our hero's fail us. I am proud to say I am not swayed too much by what I saw, I mean I certainly expected, or would have liked to see more, but I didn't. We didn't. Vince Carter failed. He failed because his franchise, and his management failed him. Together, they had forged a relationship doomed to fail and when it all happened, the media, and the fan base, as is the nature of humans in large crowds, needed a singular place in which to vent their anger, and that target was Vince Carter.

    I notice that most people, if not all, who were raptor fans back then, remained Raptor fans. Where Vince shared in the problem that led to the unfortunate failure of the team in his time in Toronto, he did only SHARE in that. The larger source of the problem, the franchise and its MLSE management itself, got ZERO hate. All of us kept cheering, kept showing up, kept paying, kept watching. We picked sides, and logically, and locally, it made sense to pick the franchise as the righteous entity, and label Carter the nemesis.

    And so, years later, people only half remembering, and as many had no idea then, and still have no idea today what really transpired, they only remember "Vince carter is bad, he is an evil, lazy, asshole of a man". The truth is much different. Instead, and more accurately, the truth is closer to this; Vince Carter is a good guy. As a young man, despite having physical abilities beyond many of his peers, he was not suited to role of Pro sports leader or superstar. He was never one with a killer instinct, never the guy to lead a franchise, and no matter how much we all desperately, HE desperately wanted to be that guy, it was always going to fail. What was left after his collapse, was hatred, and a lack of respect for a man who was anything but negative, anything but mean spirited, or dishonorable. What was left was a man who just wanted to play basketball and forget about the past. He was a guy that on many occasions apologized for his actions, and when pushed would never throw anyone under the bus. He accepted his role in his failure in Toronto, he has always endorsed the city and its inhabitants, and to this day still talks about how great a place the city is. Vince Carter is just a man. He isn't a hero, or a god. He didn't do wrong to one person in the Toronto fanbase personally, an dI would offer that whatever fans think they were cheated out of, Carter himself has paid for 1000 times over. Its time to let this stay in the past.

    People will want to argue this. You can if you like but you will be wrong. Its not right to place hatred on professional athletes. It isn't right to sight a person for his failures, and to never forgive them (as if its ANYNOES right to judge). As a society we have a hard time separating reality form our "hero's". But if you are able to finally strip all the bullshit deification media and culture has placed upon these people, when you finally see them as equals, simply men and women who excelled at something we all liked to watch, but just people nonetheless, then, and only then will you begin to realize why its wrong to have hatred, negative thoughts or anger towards them when they don't meet our standards. When they are human, just like us. When you no longer place your hero's on pedestals, you will finally have no problem when they fall, and the fall will be a small one.

    I am at that point in life and have been for a decade or so. I don't hold a grudge on any athlete, and I certainly don't dislike Vince Carter. He's fine by me. I think he'd be a cool guy to have dinner with, and I would gladly call him a friend if a met him.

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  11. #47
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    He was 28 years old when he sabotaged the Raptors. That was his seventh season into the league. He was a grown man. An adult and experienced in the sport.

    I'm not angry anymore but I have principles and expectations like anybody else in this world. My expectations are very high when it comes to principles and honor. He dishonored the team and the fans with how he exited Toronto and has not done anything really to make amends.

    Save the lecture for how you feel we should all act for someone else please.

    Oh and as for the lazy blip. I never called him lazy yet but there was a track record of it. Hell, Oakley called him out on it multiple times publicly. There's a reason why he had his best seasons with Oakley riding him, it's because he needed it.

  12. #48
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    Live and let live bud.

  13. #49
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    No doubt, but he did leave as a selfish, self-absorbed ass and deserves to be remembered that way until he does something about it.

    I think it would be a mistake for MLSE to use him in any sort of marketing because there are lots of long time Raptors fans out there like myself who are still not brushing off how he acted.

  14. #50
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    No doubt, but he did leave as a selfish, self-absorbed ass and deserves to be remembered that way until he does something about it.

    I think it would be a mistake for MLSE to use him in any sort of marketing because there are lots of long time Raptors fans out there like myself who are still not brushing off how he acted.
    He's publicly apologized about 5 times now. Short of personally visiting each and every raptors seasons tickets holder, and personally reliving the 2003 dunk competition for them in their driveway, I'm not sure hat more an athlete really has to do. He's just a guy man, a regular old guy, buys groceries, has kids and all that. he's a nice guy too.

    maybe time to move on man. nobody says he didnt make a mistake, I didnt say that, I said he did, and I hated it, but that forgiving people for mistakes is the way to go. Nothing is gained by holding on to past negativity.

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  16. #51
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    As for fans "brushing off" what he "did".

    Get over yourself man, its just sports. You might be surprised just how many don't care, how many dont even remember, and how many are just like me, and don't have any negative feelings at all.

    Maybe you do, but, you're wrong on a few levels to have those feelings. maybe you don't like to hear that, but too bad, you're acting like a child, and it ain't cool.

  17. #52
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    As for fans "brushing off" what he "did".

    Get over yourself man, its just sports. You might be surprised just how many don't care, how many dont even remember, and how many are just like me, and don't have any negative feelings at all.

    Maybe you do, but, you're wrong on a few levels to have those feelings. maybe you don't like to hear that, but too bad, you're acting like a child, and it ain't cool.
    You're contradicting yourself. You're telling me to get over myself while you take this high and mighty stance. Maybe we should make a statue in Saint Craig's honor?

    Here's an experiment: Why don't you go see a game next time he comes to town while wearing a Vince Carter Nets jersey. Note how people react to it and come back and tell us your findings.



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  18. #53
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    You mad?

  19. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    You mad?
    Anyone would get mad when having a discussion with someone who refuses to see the world from any other view point or to open their mind to new information. He's giving you counter-points to every single poor argument you make and you keep going back to the dry well of "you're just a bitter fan"


    Many of us that went through the VC era don't give a damn about apologies. The two most worthless things in this life are apologies and excuses, and he had the latter in spades while he was here, so I don't care if he's shoveling the former now.

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  21. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone here literally "hates" Vince. Sure, he's probably a nice guy. If I could go have a beer with him, would I? Are you kidding? Of course! It would be fascinating. It would be one of the most memorable experiences of my life.

    But

    For many fans, he burned a bridge that can never be built up again. Is this harsh? Childish? Unfair? I don't think so. I think it's the flipside to the coin that let him earn over $100,000,000 playing a game.

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  23. #56
    Raptors Republic Rookie 92TillInfinity's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    I don't think anyone here literally "hates" Vince. Sure, he's probably a nice guy. If I could go have a beer with him, would I? Are you kidding? Of course! It would be fascinating. It would be one of the most memorable experiences of my life.

    But

    For many fans, he burned a bridge that can never be built up again. Is this harsh? Childish? Unfair? I don't think so. I think it's the flipside to the coin that let him earn over $100,000,000 playing a game.
    This.

  24. #57
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    I don't think anyone here literally "hates" Vince. Sure, he's probably a nice guy. If I could go have a beer with him, would I? Are you kidding? Of course! It would be fascinating. It would be one of the most memorable experiences of my life.

    But

    For many fans, he burned a bridge that can never be built up again. Is this harsh? Childish? Unfair? I don't think so. I think it's the flipside to the coin that let him earn over $100,000,000 playing a game.
    Well said.

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  25. #58
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    He's publicly apologized about 5 times now. Short of personally visiting each and every raptors seasons tickets holder, and personally reliving the 2003 dunk competition for them in their driveway, I'm not sure hat more an athlete really has to do. He's just a guy man, a regular old guy, buys groceries, has kids and all that. he's a nice guy too.

    maybe time to move on man. nobody says he didnt make a mistake, I didnt say that, I said he did, and I hated it, but that forgiving people for mistakes is the way to go. Nothing is gained by holding on to past negativity.
    Can you link any of those 5 public apologies? That's one of the main things about carter, I always see him talking about it, but I've never actually heard him say "I'm sorry for the way things went down."
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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  27. #59
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Anyone would get mad when having a discussion with someone who refuses to see the world from any other view point or to open their mind to new information. He's giving you counter-points to every single poor argument you make and you keep going back to the dry well of "you're just a bitter fan"


    Many of us that went through the VC era don't give a damn about apologies. The two most worthless things in this life are apologies and excuses, and he had the latter in spades while he was here, so I don't care if he's shoveling the former now.
    He literally states in his post "you can disagree with me but you'd be wrong"

    Lol
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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  29. #60
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    I watched the VC days and absolutely hated him then. I'm just looking forward now though. I do think that that whole saga tainted the Raptors just as badly as Carter, unfortunately. It ultimately cast us as a place that superstars didn't want to play. Lets make peace if it will help this franchise in the future.

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