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Thread: What If We Dealt DeMar And Not Rudy?

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default What If We Dealt DeMar And Not Rudy?

    I tweeted about this particular subject this morning just to hear peoples opinions. So seeing how its slow here at the moment, I thought I'd throw the topic out here as well.

    So basically I just asked is anyone was curious on what this team would be like now if we dealt DeMar to Sacramento instead of Rudy? Would the after effects be the same or better or worse? Curious to know our member's thoughts on this.

    Another interesting stat line I read via our blog this morning was the Raptors record when DeMar shoots over 20+ shots per game as oppose to under 20. The Raptors record when DeRozan takes 20+ shots is 2-5. When he takes 19 or fewer, we're 11-3.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I wouldn't expect the effects to be too much different. We had 2 inefficient chuckers and got rid of one.

    But contractually speaking, there's no doubt that Gay was the right contract to move.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't expect the effects to be too much different. We had 2 inefficient chuckers and got rid of one.

    But contractually speaking, there's no doubt that Gay was the right contract to move.
    Contractually I'm obviously happy to see him gone, but its his ability to close games is where I miss him the most. Something DeMar tries way too hard to do, only to fail.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
    Contractually I'm obviously happy to see him gone, but its his ability to close games is where I miss him the most. Something DeMar tries way too hard to do, only to fail.
    i agree to an extent but why is Demar being asked to close games out? Lowry's SO much better at it, and yet...

    That's on coaching.
    @jerboat

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I'll admit I was pushing for DeRozan to be traded in the offseason (for a traditional starting PF such as Millsap) and Gay to be kept. I fully believed they were redundant and there wouldn't be enough balls to go around.

    It seems the argument that Gay & DeRozan (and Lowry) couldn't co-exist has been proven true, since all three players excel when having the ball in their hands. I think dealing either wing would have enabled more ball movement throughout the team and given Lowry more opportunity to play his natural game. I actually think dealing Gay wound up being the better move though, since DeRozan has never been as ball-dominant as Gay, so the impact on both Lowry and team ball movement of trading DeRozan likely wouldn't have been as significant.

    Moving forward, I still think DeRozan has more trade value (considering talent, potential, age, salary, contract status and reputation), so keeping him (whether to play or as a trade asset) should prove to be the better long-term choice for Toronto.

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    Gay's contract would limit the number of players we got back, thereby reducing the depth and effectiveness of our bench.

    He would still struggle as the teams no. 1 option, and his efficiency would still be moderate to mediocre.

    T.Ross & JV would still get the playing time they are getting now.

    We'd be Minus a Salmons or PattyPat so that's a good -10 to -18 points a night of effective shooting.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I still think Gay was the right one to move. Fact is, he's got a bad rep around the league whereas Demar's is more of a "he's not that efficient but he's young and getting better!"

    There's quite a few coaches that still gush about Demar. Gay was traded because there was no way he was going to get traded and holy crap he actually got traded. Demar could get traded and actually net us something substantial.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    From a pure performance standpoint, I think the team is worse off with Rudy. Hard to prove that objectively but I think if you look at the defense since he left, you have a good indicator there were more problems with Rudy than his shot selection and volume shooting.

    From an organizational standpoint, the team is far better off without that Gay contract. I'm not even sure you can play devil's advocate on the point cause that contract is so terrible.

    I don't think you can overstate how good that Gay deal was and is for the organization. Ujiri deserves a tonne of credit for it.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I don't think DeMar being traded would have taught Gay to pass the ball.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't think DeMar being traded would have taught Gay to pass the ball.
    Seriously this. Lol it would have been even worse imo Ross would rot beside Rudy. and we would probably 12-28 at this point....

    since the deal DeMar is averaging more boards and more assists go get him young Blood!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    I like Gay, but he just isn't as easy to use in a ball-movement centered offense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I think if Demar were gone and Rudy was still here, we would be well on our way to a tank lol. From a basketball standpoint, I think it was the right move. Rudy wouldn't move the ball as well as Demar. The black hole characterisation is much more applicable to Rudy than Demar. And I think our defense would be much worse than it has been since he got traded. Although he is probably a better defender than Demar, I doubt he buys into the team concept like Demar has. Also, I think Demar is a greater positive than Rudy in the locker room. It was Rudy that banned stat sheets right? lol, what a joke.

    And from a team management standpoint, it was clearly the right move...and that obviously doesn't require explanation.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I think if Demar were gone and Rudy was still here, we would be well on our way to a tank lol. From a basketball standpoint, I think it was the right move. Rudy wouldn't move the ball as well as Demar. The black hole characterisation is much more applicable to Rudy than Demar. And I think our defense would be much worse than it has been since he got traded. Although he is probably a better defender than Demar, I doubt he buys into the team concept like Demar has. Also, I think Demar is a greater positive than Rudy in the locker room. It was Rudy that banned stat sheets right? lol, what a joke.

    And from a team management standpoint, it was clearly the right move...and that obviously doesn't require explanation.
    to be fair, i dont think anyone expected demar to start moving the ball either after the rudy gay trade. too bad that pretty much stopped the past 4 games.

    so far the only real outcome is that rudy has proven he can actually still shoot, and the raptors are once again showing more false hope.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    As long as your leading scorer is taking 18 shots per game and getting just 1.17 points per shot, your team is going to struggle.

    In the last 5 games DeRozan has actually taken 20 shots per game with just 1.03 points per shot to show for it.


    As for sending DeRozan to Sacramento versus Rudy, I don't think it would have been in Raptors best interests. Rudy has been served a giant piece of humble pie. In his defense he has responded very well. Toronto does not have two big time scorers that Sacramento doe (Thomas and Cousins) nor do the Raptors have same calibre of coach.


    In the end, the trade was the best for everyone. I'm hopeful DeRozan is dealt before trade deadline and Lowry becomes sign and trade bait over summer.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As long as your leading scorer is taking 18 shots per game and getting just 1.17 points per shot, your team is going to struggle.

    In the last 5 games DeRozan has actually taken 20 shots per game with just 1.03 points per shot to show for it.


    As for sending DeRozan to Sacramento versus Rudy, I don't think it would have been in Raptors best interests. Rudy has been served a giant piece of humble pie. In his defense he has responded very well. Toronto does not have two big time scorers that Sacramento doe (Thomas and Cousins) nor do the Raptors have same calibre of coach.



    In the end, the trade was the best for everyone. I'm hopeful DeRozan is dealt before trade deadline and Lowry becomes sign and trade bait over summer.
    Totally agree with this. I think that trade was a wake up call for Rudy. If he was on this team still instead of Demar, I think I'd be watching games and wanting to rip my eyeballs out of my head just as much as I had been during the first month of the season.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As long as your leading scorer is taking 18 shots per game and getting just 1.17 points per shot, your team is going to struggle.

    In the last 5 games DeRozan has actually taken 20 shots per game with just 1.03 points per shot to show for it.


    As for sending DeRozan to Sacramento versus Rudy, I don't think it would have been in Raptors best interests. Rudy has been served a giant piece of humble pie. In his defense he has responded very well. Toronto does not have two big time scorers that Sacramento doe (Thomas and Cousins) nor do the Raptors have same calibre of coach.


    In the end, the trade was the best for everyone. I'm hopeful DeRozan is dealt before trade deadline and Lowry becomes sign and trade bait over summer.
    Why? Raps are winning and DeRozan's a HUGE part of it. And who do u want back in exchange for DD? draft picks?? a young player? hope that that pick/player becomes a 20+ppg/all-star player?? DeRozan is already that and he's only 24 years old.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Why? Raps are winning and DeRozan's a HUGE part of it. And who do u want back in exchange for DD? draft picks?? a young player? hope that that pick/player becomes a 20+ppg/all-star player?? DeRozan is already that and he's only 24 years old.
    Hope that that pick/player becomes a player who plays winning basketball - efficiency and defense included. DeRozan does not do that.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Why? Raps are winning and DeRozan's a HUGE part of it. And who do u want back in exchange for DD? draft picks?? a young player? hope that that pick/player becomes a 20+ppg/all-star player?? DeRozan is already that and he's only 24 years old.
    You can win with an inefficient first option. Look at Portland with Aldridge. However Raptors don't have Lillard, Matthews, Batum, and Lopez getting ridiculous big time points per shot to overcome DD's inefficiency.

    If Raptors find that and continue winning great.

    However the winning comes with a huge * in my opinion. 21-20 is great but the east is weak. Lets call a spade a spade. Big time stars are missing long stretches or out for season. Teams are tanking like never before. This season is not a vacuum. The next few seasons are not going to continue like this. A reversal to the norm will eventually occur and at some point the east will actually be the stronger conference like it was in the '90s.

    Late last season proved to be fools gold. I hope this season since the Gay trade does not prove to be the same as eventually teams will start cashing in assets or watching assets blossom. There is no guaranteed path to success but there is a lot of potential already lurking on some bottom feeder east teams. Will it be realized and if so what will that look like?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Keeping with this year's bizarro NBA, everything was going along so smoothly until Gay was traded and the exact opposite of what was expected to happen, happened...



    All joking aside, as noted in my first post in this thread, I do think it was the best move for the Raptors. Clearing off his salary (and resolving the uncertainty) and acquiring four assets (2 decent players, 1 intriguing contract and 1 expiring contract for next season) was a good move by MU. Plus, DeRozan is still an asset, likely even move valuable than he was earlier in the season.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 at 12:07 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    I don't think Masai's original goal was to make the team better...

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