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What If We Dealt DeMar And Not Rudy?
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OldSkoolCool wrote: View PostThe best way to describe DD's game tonight was he hit shots. He took a lot of bad shots and just hit them. Though one could argue that if he would have played better D in the first...we may not have been down 21 after 1...
http://stats.nba.com/shotchartPopup....Measure=FG_PCT
He shot 15-22 with 14 FTAs....And of his 22 FGs, 8 were long range, with 7 that might be called long 2s, with one 3pt attempt where he was wide open. 9 shots were deep in the lane/at the basket, and likely even more attempts that didn't register but ended up in him getting to the line.
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Quick question, why are people only judging this trade Rudy vs DeMar using offensive numbers?
Also, looks like Gay is injured. THAT makes me also want to consider durability when comparing the 2.
I think Masai chose right. He picked the better contract, the better team defender (at least by appearance), the player more likely to pass the ball, the player more likely to change his game during rough spells, the younger player, and the more durable player. I think more teams would want DeMar than Rudy.
In a normal year is he in All-star conversations? Hell no. Should he be a first option? No-- he'd be way more efficient in a secondary role. BUT he can be a first option. AND he brings all the other things I listed to the table. Just seems like a no-brainer to me.
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Watching Gay in Sacramento, I still have aching feeling that Gay was playing poorly on purpose to get traded as soon as possible. He probably Knew, with Colangelo gone and Ujiri in, there was a very high chance that he was gonna get dealt somewhere, so he didn't even try to play in Toronto in his last year. If Colangelo had stayed as GM, I'm pretty sure Gay would have been much safer from getting traded.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostWell, that's exaggerating. Now, I was ragging on him as much as anybody in the dreadful 1st quarter (for his non-existent D), but he had maybe one of his better games in terms of shot selection (help explain a career high?), so you need to rewatch or at least check his shot chart.
http://stats.nba.com/shotchartPopup....Measure=FG_PCT
He shot 15-22 with 14 FTAs....And of his 22 FGs, 8 were long range, with 7 that might be called long 2s, with one 3pt attempt where he was wide open. 9 shots were deep in the lane/at the basket, and likely even more attempts that didn't register but ended up in him getting to the line.
The following link is where you can watch every shot attempt.
http://stats.nba.com/gameDetail.html?GameID=0021300624
Just click on the column FGA in the DD row.
I went through and watched them all. In the first half I thought he did really well:
1st Quarter: 4/4 on good shots and 0/2 on bad shots
2nd Quarter: 2/3 on good shots and 0/2 on bad shots
then he got hot...
3rd Quarter: 3/4 on good shots and 3/3 on bad shots
4th Quarter: 1/2 on good shots, 1/1 on bad shots, and 1/1 on circus shots
13 good shots and 9 bad shots...his shot selection was much better than I thought. His 9/14 from the line really helped his stat line too.
And also as a side note...he never really led the team at any time during the game. He was on the floor during the first and getting butt-whooped defensively. He wasn't on the floor during the comeback. The team didn't make any headway in the third with him 'exploding'. In the fourth I though Val was a bigger presence on both sides of the ball. I really think if DD didn't play for a stretch of games, the Raps wouldn't get any worse.
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OldSkoolCool wrote: View PostShot Chart never can tell between good shot and bad shot, only where the shot took place. A shot chart cannot tell between an open corner 3 versus a fade-away contested 3 with 10 seconds left on the shot clock.
The following link is where you can watch every shot attempt.
http://stats.nba.com/gameDetail.html?GameID=0021300624
Just click on the column FGA in the DD row.
I went through and watched them all. In the first half I thought he did really well:
1st Quarter: 4/4 on good shots and 0/2 on bad shots
2nd Quarter: 2/3 on good shots and 0/2 on bad shots
then he got hot...
3rd Quarter: 3/4 on good shots and 3/3 on bad shots
4th Quarter: 1/2 on good shots, 1/1 on bad shots, and 1/1 on circus shots
13 good shots and 9 bad shots...his shot selection was much better than I thought. His 9/14 from the line really helped his stat line too.
And also as a side note...he never really led the team at any time during the game. He was on the floor during the first and getting butt-whooped defensively. He wasn't on the floor during the comeback. The team didn't make any headway in the third with him 'exploding'. In the fourth I though Val was a bigger presence on both sides of the ball. I really think if DD didn't play for a stretch of games, the Raps wouldn't get any worse.
On your last point, it's impossible to know. The team didn't make headway, but would they have fallen behind if he wasn't hitting those shots? I noted earlier that it's no coincidence their best stretches were when the O was more varied, but Casey's system doesn't often promote that, and thus you're left with guys like DeMar, Kyle and previously Rudy being forced into too many situations where they have to make something happen. Today DeMar was making pretty good choices. Another game could easily be the opposite.
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Someone mentioned a week or so ago that DeRozan's long twos seem like a problem now, but come playoff time, it really helps to have someone who can sink that type of shot because teams step up their defense and a long two is often the only shot available. This seems to make sense to me, but I really don't know much about these things. Anyone else care to comment on this reasoning? If it is true, the regular season would be his time to "practice" his mid-range game and hopefully be reliable in the playoffs when points are harder to find.
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Beagle wrote: View PostSomeone mentioned a week or so ago that DeRozan's long twos seem like a problem now, but come playoff time, it really helps to have someone who can sink that type of shot because teams step up their defense and a long two is often the only shot available. This seems to make sense to me, but I really don't know much about these things. Anyone else care to comment on this reasoning? If it is true, the regular season would be his time to "practice" his mid-range game and hopefully be reliable in the playoffs when points are harder to find.
if you watched the spurs/miami finals games you can tell the spurs basically invited lebron to shoot long 2s by giving him a ton of space when he dribbles up to the key. lebron is way better at midrange than DD is, and even the king himself hesitates to take that shot.Last edited by iblastoff; Thu Jan 23, 2014, 08:55 AM.
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4hunnit_degreez wrote: View PostIf Derozan drove to the rim 70% of the time and actually make use of his 40" vertical, he would be a much more efficient player
He still took a good number of jumpers, but he set up his drive game first which opened up a lot more open shot opportunities for him (and got him into a rhythm offensively) later on.
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iblastoff wrote: View Postfuck no. why would the long 2 ever be the only shot available. if anything, that would easily play to the opponents favour. if they force DD to shoot long 2s (which every team already tries to do), then we'll lose easily.
if you watched the spurs/miami finals games you can tell the spurs basically invited lebron to shoot long 2s by giving him a ton of space when he dribbles up to the key. lebron is way better at midrange than DD is, and even the king himself hesitates to take that shot.
Which teams force their opponents to take the most mid-range shots per game?
In order:
CHI
IND
ORL
SAS
GSW
Which teams have the best DRTG in the entire league?
In order:
IND
CHI
OKC
SAS
GSW
As a note, ORL and OKC are league average in the other category.
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white men can't jump wrote: View Post[B]On your last point, it's impossible to know. The team didn't make headway, but would they have fallen behind if he wasn't hitting those shots? I noted earlier that it's no coincidence their best stretches were when the O was more varied, but Casey's system doesn't often promote that., and thus you're left with guys like DeMar, Kyle and previously Rudy being forced into too many situations where they have to make something happen Today DeMar was making pretty good choices. Another game could easily be the opposite.
When I watch the Raps, I see DD...but he doesn't really impact the game like a good player should. And I'm not talking about LeBron level impact or anything like that, I'm talking even role player level impact.
I dunno maybe it's just me and actually wanting to watch some proper basketball. (ie tank and get a star, masiah plz)
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iblastoff wrote: View Postfuck no. why would the long 2 ever be the only shot available. if anything, that would easily play to the opponents favour. if they force DD to shoot long 2s (which every team already tries to do), then we'll lose easily.
if you watched the spurs/miami finals games you can tell the spurs basically invited lebron to shoot long 2s by giving him a ton of space when he dribbles up to the key. lebron is way better at midrange than DD is, and even the king himself hesitates to take that shot.I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.
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OldSkoolCool wrote: View PostThe long two should only be used AFTER penetration and ball movement to try and get the three.
If your offense is oriented around settling for the mid ranged shot you wont win anything importantI relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.
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