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Thread: Going Forward with Uncertainty

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Shredder's Avatar
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    Default Going Forward with Uncertainty

    Very Long Time reader first time poster. So please don't jump all over me if this has been discussed somewhere else. I believe the last few games is more of what we can expect than the previous 10. This is the NBA, and players, and more importantly teams, can get hot, very hot. Lowry is playing at a level never really seen before in his career, Derozan has been more efficient, Ross looks like the player we were told he would be on draft night, and the Kings players have been playing like they are in the playoff picture, which for most of them, is the first time in their careers. The trade kicked these players in the butt, and they responded. As like most of us, when our career is on the line we will work harder, but it's only a matter of time before we lose that edge and old habits start to creep back. I like our core. I think JV will be great once he puts on more size to compete with the bigger bigs in the league. For only his second season, the Kid looks great. I love Amir, he is the definition of a tdot blue collar player. I liked the drafting of Ross over Drummond, I don't care how good Drummond is, if he is on a contender his Foul Shot rate will put him on the bench late in games (Under 30% is gross). Ross is a good player, with a sweet stroke. If he can be a 3 & d player, he will have a long career in this league. I've always liked Derozan, he has taken longer than I thought he would to get where he is, but he is always progressing which I like to see. Lowry is playing amazing. He is becoming more of a complete pg, that looks for the best play, not necessarily the best play for him. I think 2pat is outstanding and I can honestly say, I knew the least of him when the trade went down, but have been pleasantly surprised.

    However I don't think this core can get very far in the playoffs. I'm not going to sit here and say I wasn't a member of tank nation, because I was, but I think that ship has sailed. But I also think there are certain avenues that MU can go to make this team better in the future. I know with the new CBA that players are more inclined to wait for free agency than to sign extensions, but at the same note I'm surprised Lowry hasn't signed one yet. If he goes, this team is shot. I also really like some of the players that aren't seeing any floor time at the moment: TH, Novak, even to some extent Vasquez. I like both Derozan and Ross, but I really think they play the same position which makes one expendable. So that leaves MU a bunch of assets. Ross/Derozan who ever is getting a higher return, Lowry and his uncertainty, Novak, Tyler, Vasquez, Fields(I don't think anyone will take him and his contract, but he can still play in this league to some extent) Hayes, Salmons and a few future picks at his disposal.

    IMO a good NBA team should be composed at the very least with three things, a very good point guard, an elite wing, and a dominant big man. This year I think we have two(pg and big man) but next year we might be left with one. So it's nice to cheer for wins for the first time in a long time, but I will be super disappointed if it's short lived. So IMO we take our assets to get some players now and picks for later. MU has shown in the past that he is very good at multiple team trades, so that leads us with endless options. My approach would be to send lowry and one of derozan/ross to Boston for Rondo. Might be a long shot but if anyone can do it I think MU can. Next I would take the reasonable contracts of most of our bench players and try to package them together to get another pick in this draft. Maybe to denver for the new york pick. Then on draft night try to package our stockpile of picks to move up the draft. I'm a Wiggins fan. No doubt about it (read in the most notorious Canadian accent). I hope he moves down from the top pick which might be easier to get. I believe, after watching numerous Kanas games this year that he will do better in the NBA. He has definitely disappeared when facing a zone, which would be illegal in the NBA, but his silky smooth moves and enormous upside has me salivating. Pair that with the fact that he's a home town boy, that wants to play in tdot, and you had me at hello.

    I've been a Raptor fan since day one. I watch blow outs to the end. I find it hard to cheer for loses (even though I have, especially when we loss Barnes by a coin flip). So I can't sit here and say that I won't be a fan if we don't get wiggins. But man oh man would it be nice. Pair him with an elite pg and big man, another serviceable wing and power forward and you have yourself a contender. In addition, if we can somehow keep our financial flexibility, who knows what elite players would sign here in the summer of 2015.

    Pipe dream line-up:
    Rondo
    Wiggins
    Durant
    Amir
    JV
    Bench:
    Ross or Derozan
    2pat
    I know it's a long shot, but a boy can dream can't he?
    Sorry for the long winded post
    Last edited by Shredder; Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 at 01:35 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Hey man welcome to the land of posting, good to have you.

    I don't want to be a prick but do you mind breaking that thing down into paragraphs or something? I'm having a rough time reading it.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Hey man welcome to the land of posting, good to have you.

    I don't want to be a prick but do you mind breaking that thing down into paragraphs or something? I'm having a rough time reading it.
    Yeah, id like to read it too, but way too much work as is. paragraphs and i'll respond

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Great 1st post!

    I agree with most points you made. But I'm just not sold on the post-injury (and post hall of fame teammates) Rondo. I like the idea of going all-in for a stud PG, but I sincerely hope it isn't Rondo.

    As for Wiggins, he will be facing zones in the NBA every so often. He's just gotta be able to hit the 3 at a respectable rate.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    disagree that ross and derozan play a similar game. i think their strengths are completely different.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star consmap's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    disagree that ross and derozan play a similar game. i think their strengths are completely different.
    I think the problem is that neither are a legit SF. Both players would benefit most from playing the SG position.
    This also causes troubles on defense. Even though T Ross is becoming a great defender, he lacks the size to guard bigger SFs. DeMar was never strong defensively to begin with.


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    Raptors Republic Rookie Shredder's Avatar
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    I believe as well that they play a different game, however I think they both play the SG position. IMO only one SG should be playing at the same time, which is why I think one is expendable.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Shredder wrote: View Post
    I believe as well that they play a different game, however I think they both play the SG position. IMO only one SG should be playing at the same time, which is why I think one is expendable.
    then we need someone to take the pressure off of ross. only reason hes prospering right now is because hes starting behind derozan and benefits from defense mainly focusing on DD instead. last season when ross came off the bench and was supposed to be the scoring spark for that lineup, he failed completely.

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    What I believe is happening with the losses after the wins is lack of adjustment. It's a young and "thin" team, a bit tired and other teams took notice and adjusted/scouted the Raps. Happens all the time. Good teams then readjust and their best players find a way to respond...and on we go.

    Many have made the mistake that taking in/enjoying the winning streak equated to it being because the Raps are a "good" team. Depends I suppose on one's def of this. Mine is sustainability of the wins and minimizing the losses over a prolonged period of games/time. And many factors come to bear including injuries. We shall know more come the trade deadline a month from now.

    May sound cliche-ish but I believe it is true.

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    Quote Shredder wrote: View Post
    I believe the last few games is more of what we can expect than the previous 10. This is the NBA, and players, and more importantly teams, can get hot, very hot.
    I disagree. The last few games have just been bad. Our defense has been well below what we have seen since the trade and I think it comes down to being tired. DeMar has averaged just below 40 mpg the last 4 which is just too much. Casey has been really riding his scoring because of dips in scoring from Amir, Val, 2Pat, and Ross. The loss of Salmons wasn't much help against the Lakers as well. Part of the reason we played well against the top teams is the mix-up of scoring (drives, shooting, etc.) I can't remember the last time one of our wings has driven to the basket and gone up strong for a layup or some FT's. So what I am trying to say is we are one player short of being a really good team.

    If we can grab an athletic, slashing, 2 way SF who can help balance out the minutes for the wings, we can really contend and get a more consistent day-to-day output. Names like Jeff Green and Evan Turner come to mind. I especially like Turner who is an expiring on his reasonable rookie deal with better output than Green. Turner has had a solid increase in FG% and PPG this year and has shown he can take on the big names on Defense.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    I think todays performance might be a slight turning point.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I think todays performance might be a slight turning point.
    One win over a dirk-less mavs that depended on our inefficient scorer scoring
    career high numbers isn't exactly the best sign of a turning point. Ball movement and defense need to come back. JV and Amir need to wake up. Ross can't have horrible shooting nights like this. Still no real consistency is a huge problem.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    One win over a dirk-less mavs that depended on our inefficient scorer scoring
    career high numbers isn't exactly the best sign of a turning point. Ball movement and defense need to come back. JV and Amir need to wake up. Ross can't have horrible shooting nights like this. Still no real consistency is a huge problem.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I was thinking more of a confidence stand point. Demar is really good at riding hot streaks, and the team has a sweet rhythm that it hits when they play well and it adds to their momentum. Pulling out a 21 point deficit against a playoff Western Conference team is tough, and it should give the confidence to the team that when they want to put the pedal on, no lead is too big to overcome, even against quality opponents.

    And yes, the really put the pedal on their defence, especially in the 4th, and that was the most inspiring to see.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    The bench is so shallow. Beyond the 4 who came over from the trade they get nothing with Psycho T out. They need consistency from Vasquez as well. Before they fix the starting lineup they need to sort out the end of the bench. At least now the Raps have gone from a team with 5 players to a team with 9, but it's not enough.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I was thinking more of a confidence stand point. Demar is really good at riding hot streaks, and the team has a sweet rhythm that it hits when they play well and it adds to their momentum. Pulling out a 21 point deficit against a playoff Western Conference team is tough, and it should give the confidence to the team that when they want to put the pedal on, no lead is too big to overcome, even against quality opponents.

    And yes, the really put the pedal on their defence, especially in the 4th, and that was the most inspiring to see.

    Confidence gained from climbing out of huge deficits?
    I think you're forgetting the fact that we had to pull out of a 20 point deficit against a depleted Boston team and what did the team learn from that? They learned to lose a game to the no Kobe or Nash lakers after having TWO big leads and then end up in yet another 30 point deficit against Charlotte with no Kemba walker.

    You'd expect our confidence to be sky high after nearly climbing out of both deficits. But no. Instead we end up in another 20 point deficit in the FIRST QUARTER against a dirkless mavs team. And it was basically by necessity that derozan had to play a career high scoring just to squeak by with a win. I doubt the rest of the team is thinking confidence with the way they won this one.


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    This is a total joke, some raps fans are so insane. Let me get this straight
    1. almost every raptor is playing at the top of their ability.
    2. they have had no major injuries.
    3. Almost every team in the east has had major injuries or majorly under performing players

    Even so the raps are barely .500.
    Next year almost every team will improve and the raps are likely to decline in addition to possibly having to pay players money they aren't worth (primarily Lowry). How in the world do people think this is heading in the right direction? Sorry, don't believe Ujiri is this stupid.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    This is a total joke, some raps fans are so insane. Let me get this straight
    1. almost every raptor is playing at the top of their ability.
    2. they have had no major injuries.
    3. Almost every team in the east has had major injuries or majorly under performing players

    Even so the raps are barely .500.
    Next year almost every team will improve and the raps are likely to decline in addition to possibly having to pay players money they aren't worth (primarily Lowry). How in the world do people think this is heading in the right direction? Sorry, don't believe Ujiri is this stupid.
    wtf are you going on about? no one in this thread said anything about keeping lowry. in fact the very first post's 'dream lineup' doesn't even have him. we get it, you dont like lowry. but the fact you need to interject this point into every fucking post whether its even relevant or not is pathetic.

    as for .500, i think you're forgetting the fact that the first 18 games were with the rudy gay lineup. pretty huge difference if we didn't go 6-12 at the start of the season. regardless, no one expected this performance from the team anyway. but at least we got rid of the biggest burdening contracts on the team for smaller, manageable ones as well as collecting picks. to think we're going to resign the entire team as is = stupid.
    Last edited by iblastoff; Thu Jan 23rd, 2014 at 07:52 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    This is a total joke, some raps fans are so insane. Let me get this straight
    ...
    Now let's look at an alternate way to write this:

    "I would have to disagree with other members on this board about what the prospects are for this team. First some things I think we can all agree with.

    1. A lot of the team's players are having career years. I'm not sure we can expect this going forward.
    2. The starting five have missed very few games due to injuries or even sickness. I think third lowest in the league.
    3. Most of their competition in the east, and even teams they have beat from the western conference, have had significant injuries to top players.

    Even so, the Raps record so far, halfway through the season, is just above .500

    The Raps will be out of the lottery. Some of the worst teams in the league are centered in the east and will improve through the draft. It seems like the rest of the teams in the east can expect their stars to be healthy again next year.

    So it looks like the teams the Rap's play the most next season (the ones in their conference) can be expected to have some impactful rookies and returning all-stars leading to significant improvement. Meanwhile the Raps will have to increase their payroll (if they want Lowry and Patterson back) just to maintain the status quo. I don't think that you can say they are headed in the right direction. And I don't expect Ujiri to go along with this plan.

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Now let's look at an alternate way to write this:
    .....


    Can Puffer fix it? yes he can!

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Man, Raptor fans are so fickle.

    We are 15-8 since the Rudy gay trade. Thats 65% wins in 23 games (more than a quarter of a season).

    We could be at 50%, 60%, or even 70% and people would still chime in on how we are going in the wrong direction.

    It's like, win 80% of your games, or win 0%. Thats literally the mindset some people on this board have shown.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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