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Thread: John Salmons and Amir Johnson's team options

  1. #21
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Salmons at the right price, but currently, Id prefer Vince Carter over Salmons due to contractual reasons and they bring similar things.
    Vince is a much better player.

  2. #22
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Thanks for clarifying.

    I guess with Salmons, it's really just seeing how the rest of the season plays out...
    I think there's nothing to see, 7 mil is a legit starter salary. Even if the Raptors decide they want Salmons on the roster, they will cut him and then re-sign him for the minimum (i.e. under 1 mil), like the Rockets did with Francisco Garcia.

  3. #23
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    There is no doubt Salmons will be gone next year.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Good backup wings you can get for less than $7m next summer: Jodie Meeks, Shannon Brown, Thabo Sefalosha, Al-Farouq Aminu, Trevor Ariza, CJ Miles, Metta World Peace.
    And how many of them would accept a one year contract?

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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    And how many of them would accept a one year contract?
    1 year under 7 mil? Nearly all of them, I think. Ariza and Thabo might be the only ones that would refuse (I'm not sure they would refuse or not). Jodie Meeks and CJ Miles caliber players end up taking deals like 2 years / 4 mil total. So why wouldn't they take that 4 mil in a single year.
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sun Jan 26th, 2014 at 03:59 PM.

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    Couple of people here have mentioned Vince.

    I am i the camp that will never truly forgive Vince for what he did - taking games off (self-admitted) and publicly calling for a trade (completely took away Raps bargaining power).

    Having said that, I am all about the Raps improving as a team. The recent attempt by MLSE to rehabilitate his reputation, perhaps in preparation for the All-Star game in 2016, leads me to believe they wish to sign him. It may be he wishes to rehabilitate his reputation as well. If he is available for a good price, I am okay with the Raps signing him. Doesn't change what happened, but I'm okay with him helping the Raps move forward. And then he can get his championship ring with the Raps and JV and Lowry and DD and Amir and TRoss and Kevin Durant in 2017.

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  8. #27
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    I think keeping Amir's contract is a no brainer. As for Salmons it would depend on who we can sign in place of Salmons. As it stands he's the most reliable wing back up that we have. Salmons gives you a reliable veteran defender and secondary ball handler. Obviously 7M is too much for what he gives you but his contract is only an issue if it prevents the Raps from signing someone else that they really want. Looking at the FA list, there really aren't many reliable two way vets with ball handling capabilities out there. You can make an argument for Sefalosha and Ariza but their current teams would likely want to resign them. The other possible scenario is that the Raps end up drafting a wing with their first round pick, which would might force them into letting Salmons go. At the end of the day, despite his "bad contract" I'd still keep him unless a better option is available.

  9. #28
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    Quote Bears wrote: View Post
    I think keeping Amir's contract is a no brainer. As for Salmons it would depend on who we can sign in place of Salmons. As it stands he's the most reliable wing back up that we have. Salmons gives you a reliable veteran defender and secondary ball handler. Obviously 7M is too much for what he gives you but his contract is only an issue if it prevents the Raps from signing someone else that they really want. Looking at the FA list, there really aren't many reliable two way vets with ball handling capabilities out there. You can make an argument for Sefalosha and Ariza but their current teams would likely want to resign them. The other possible scenario is that the Raps end up drafting a wing with their first round pick, which would might force them into letting Salmons go. At the end of the day, despite his "bad contract" I'd still keep him unless a better option is available.
    The idea that cap space is only valuable if you want to spend it right now is shortsighted. That cap space becomes very valuable when some team wants to drop a little bit of salary and get under tax, or needs help to make a deal work. Every year there are teams that leverage that 6 mil of cap space into a 1st round pick or other valuable assets.

    Even if you wanted to keep him, you would still cut him and look to re-sign him on the cheap. You can do much better with 6 mil, whether it's a better backup, or space to be used in trades.

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  11. #29
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    The idea that cap space is only valuable if you want to spend it right now is shortsighted. That cap space becomes very valuable when some team wants to drop a little bit of salary and get under tax, or needs help to make a deal work. Every year there are teams that leverage that 6 mil of cap space into a 1st round pick or other valuable assets.

    Even if you wanted to keep him, you would still cut him and look to re-sign him on the cheap. You can do much better with 6 mil, whether it's a better backup, or space to be used in trades.
    Good point. That said, remember the Raps have 4.5M of TPE to use (Gay trade), which allows them to exceed the cap space if needed. Now to your point, having cap space + plus TPE gives you more flexibility. On a side note, I'm not sure you can guarantee that you'll resign a player you just cut.

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Vince is a much better player.
    Vince is also a much better whiner and smirker. I experienced it first hand. Cuban loves him I hear...he should stay there.

  13. #31
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Vince is also a much better whiner and smirker. I experienced it first hand. Cuban loves him I hear...he should stay there.
    10 years ago maybe. I haven't heard anything but positive things for years.

    Anyway, the poster said that Vince and Salmons bring similar things. My reply was that Vince is a much better player.

    I don't really care about all the emotional scars and the whole 'lets bring Vince back or not' discussion. I'm more on the pragmatic side, I'd welcome anyone who wants to be here and helps the team. Besides, there's a different thread for that. I posted that reply because Salmons seemed way overrated there.

  14. #32
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    Quote Bears wrote: View Post
    Good point. That said, remember the Raps have 4.5M of TPE to use (Gay trade), which allows them to exceed the cap space if needed. Now to your point, having cap space + plus TPE gives you more flexibility. On a side note, I'm not sure you can guarantee that you'll resign a player you just cut.
    That's true, no guarantees, but if he doesn't sign for a fraction of that 6 mil, he needs to go. He's not exactly a great irreplaceable player. Plenty of options as good / better than him. You cut him, get the cap space, try to get someone good, then if it doesn't work, a month later you look at all cheap options still on the table and I think there's a good chance that Salmons will still be there. If not, plenty of comparable players.

    Keep in mind, that decision to cut Salmons has to be made before free agency starts. So this isn't a question of "lets look around at who wants to sign here, then maybe cut Salmons." You have to cut him before you look around. Either way, he's way overpaid, and there are bound to be plenty of better ways to use that cap space either in July or later, so I think it's an easy decision.
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sun Jan 26th, 2014 at 08:32 PM.

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  16. #33
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post

    For example, if we could trade Salmons for Perkins plus a first-rounder (I know, Oklahoma never trades their first rounders), it wouldn't set us any further back next year, we could give Perk some backup C minutes, and in 2015 he comes off the books at the same time as most of our other undesirable contracts.
    Is this just a general example of the type of trade they could try and float for Salmons? OKC can still waive Perkins as part of the amnesty provision, which gives them better flexibility than 1 mil to waive Salmons and they get to keep their pick.

  17. #34
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    Quote hyperdouche wrote: View Post
    Is this just a general example of the type of trade they could try and float for Salmons? OKC can still waive Perkins as part of the amnesty provision, which gives them better flexibility than 1 mil to waive Salmons and they get to keep their pick.
    But they actually have to pay Perkins $9.3m to walk away plus the cost of rookie

    That might matter to ownership
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    I think you have to keep Amir because he's versatile and he gives effort, and he's a solid big man who can start if needed. You're not going to find a better starting 4 for anything near what Amir makes.

    Salmons on the other hand... no. No, no, no. Keeping those kinds of contracts around is such an old Raptors move.

    What you learn from Salmons is that you want a guy on the bench who can play the wing and also handle the ball, something the Raptors have lacked. You use that information to find a similar guy cheaper in free agency, or via trade. But as any team that has rewarded Salmons knows, eventually the bloom comes off that rose.
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  19. #36
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    I think keeping Amir is still up in the air especially after the way Patterson has played. If we look at what we have next year PF wise, Patterson, Hansbrough, and Novak, wouldn't that be a solid enough PF rotation going forward for the team? I love Amir and all but his money would be better spent elsewhere. He might be a perfect trade chip come draft time to move up the draftboard. Paying 7 mil for the player we have seen the past stretch of games is not worth it in my opinion. If Amir turns it around playing more like the "game sealing rebound against Dallas" Amir, you pick up that option in a hurry.

  20. #37
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    Novak is a waste of 3+ million at this point.

    I'm not a big Hansborough guy. He's fine if he's not your third big I guess.

    Hayes will be around next year as well given his salary (over 6 mil) unless somebody wants his expiring contract in the summer.

    In theory sure, the Raptors could spend that 7 million somewhere. But where? It really depends who else is back, what they do in the draft or via trade, and who is actually a free agent. If you renounce both Amir and Salmons, you have some cap room. But then you've opened up two rotation spots as well.
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  21. #38
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    Quote JRedmond14 wrote: View Post
    I think keeping Amir is still up in the air especially after the way Patterson has played. If we look at what we have next year PF wise, Patterson, Hansbrough, and Novak, wouldn't that be a solid enough PF rotation going forward for the team? I love Amir and all but his money would be better spent elsewhere. He might be a perfect trade chip come draft time to move up the draftboard. Paying 7 mil for the player we have seen the past stretch of games is not worth it in my opinion. If Amir turns it around playing more like the "game sealing rebound against Dallas" Amir, you pick up that option in a hurry.
    Maybe Amir gets traded, or not, who knows. I'm sure Ujiri would trade anyone if there's a good price.

    But Amir won't be cut. You only save 2 mil by cutting him. So forget about 7 mil. The question is do you want Amir for 2 mil for 1 year? Even the most pessimistic answer would still be yes.

  22. #39
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    Quote Tortacular wrote: View Post
    Novak is a waste of 3+ million at this point.

    I'm not a big Hansborough guy. He's fine if he's not your third big I guess.

    Hayes will be around next year as well given his salary (over 6 mil) unless somebody wants his expiring contract in the summer.

    In theory sure, the Raptors could spend that 7 million somewhere. But where? It really depends who else is back, what they do in the draft or via trade, and who is actually a free agent. If you renounce both Amir and Salmons, you have some cap room. But then you've opened up two rotation spots as well.
    Novak was always a waste at that salary. Knicks. 4 years 15 mil for Novak. Colangelo would be an improvement for that franchise.

  23. #40
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    A guy that would be great if we could get him in place of Salmons is Francisco Garcia. Solid vet that can defend and space the floor. Richard Jefferson or Jason Richardson might be worth a look as well. Don't think it will be difficult to replace Salmons.

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